The man – looking dapper as ushe – needs representation and isn’t interested in sticking around without it.
Do I Have Public Accounting Burnout?
Good morning and welcome back as we return with another accounting career quagmire. In today’s edition, an experienced associate at a California regional has a bad case of burnout and is weighing some options – including the IRS.
Caught in a dicey situation at work? Want to incorporate your love for your firm on your vanity plates but need some suggestions? Have some extra money to throw around and need help with ideas on how to best use it to your advantage? Email us at advice@goingconc l make sure you spend it wisely.
Back to the burnout at hand:
I am a second-year associate at a regional firm in California and I am considering getting out to go somewhere else, but I’m not sure where. I’ll start by saying that I have some big issues with the way the firm is run and I don’t trust anyone except for people in my office and maybe two people in the main office. Multiple people in my office have recently notified the firm that they will be leaving including multiple staff, a manager, senior manager, and a partner. Most of them are leaving due to the frustration related to the way things run around here. The partner and managers were basically rendered powerless by the CEO and main office for the entire time they were here and I think the growth of our office has suffered because of it.
I don’t have my CPA license and I’m not sure I care about it anymore, but then again, I’m not sure if working here has just beat me down to the point where I am pessimistic about the rest of my life spent in accounting. I do somewhat enjoy auditing, but I feel I would be better suited for forensics or consulting, a path that I inquired about at my current firm to which I received a reply similar to “not if you want to keep your job”. Could the grass be greener at another accounting firm? I had a good amount of personal interaction with the partner, but I am not sure it’s enough where I could ask him if he wants to bring me along when he jumps ship and swims to his new firm. Or should I be looking for a larger, more well-established firm with more interesting clients?
That being said, I’m pretty burnt-out and not even sure if I want to stay in public accounting. I don’t want to go private at this point, but might instead want to go work for the IRS. My brother is a revenue agent, enjoys it, and said he’d keep his ears open for job opportunities. It seems like it is less frustrating, fairly interesting work that fits into my more investigative mind-set. So could the better hours, more centrally located audit locations, great benefits, and lot’s o’ federal holidays be worth making the switch?
Thanks for your help,
Big-Time Burnout
Dear BTB,
Autocratic management? A quasi-exodus? Your professional interests are meaningless? How you’ve managed to last two years in this joint is nothing short of miraculous. How the firm convinced you to take the job in the first place is also a mystery but let’s focus on the future shall we?
From the sounds of it, you are suffering from a severe case of burnout but we’re not convinced that it’s because of public accounting. You ask, “Could the grass be greener at another accounting firm?” and considering the fact that grass you’re currently grazing is brown and the dog shit hasn’t been picked up for weeks, it wouldn’t be hard to find a better firm. The risk is that if you do have public accounting burnout then you’re doing yourself a disservice by making another run at it when your heart isn’t in it. Plus, your “meh” attitude about the CPA doesn’t do much for your prospects at another firm.
If you’re interested in forensics and consulting, the IRS may be a good route for you. Follow up on your lead and make it known that you are very interested in any opportunities. But since the IRS gig doesn’t sound like a guarantee, you should find a recruiter to help you get out of your current gig. Don’t make yourself look like you’re desperate but definitely communicate why you are looking. A good recruiter will help you find a cultural fit as well possibilities to satisfy your intellectual curiosities.
So while you’re showing severe symptoms of public accounting burnout, it’s not a clear-cut case. Your career aspirations would be best served if you could find another firm more willing to cater to your interests in forensics and consulting. If an opportunity at the IRS comes up and you’re still interested, go for it. In the meantime, take some vacation (if your firm will let you, yeesh).
Insight from the peanut gallery? Help the poor guy out.
Doing It Wrong Twitter Case Study: The Hyper-Connected Crack Tweeter
Chances are you know the Hyper-Connected Crack Tweeter and worse, you could possibly be him or her. Tell-tale signs of hyper-connected crack tweeting include constant RTing, endless strings of @s (sometimes to no one in particular) and a nuclear follow cost. If you are unsure of your follow cost, feel free to check here and if you come up nuclear, it may be time to talk about your Twitter habits.
Remember, value is in the eye of the beholder. While it may seem reasonable to the hyper-connected crack tweeter to send out a constant stream of “Thanks for the RT!” notes and 75 #FollowFriday recommendations beginning on Thursday night, if many in your stream are following 100 people or less, you’re basically just cluttering up other folks’ streams and adding very little value while doing so. Because we’re specifically speaking about accounting here, it’s important to point out that many in the profession are new (or newer) to Twitter and therefore likely to be following just a small handful of people. Point being, if you aren’t adding value you’re pretty much just being obnoxious.
Our recommendation is always to look at what others in the profession are doing to get an idea of what is appropriate use of Twitter. We’ve already recommended checking out those on Michelle Golden’s Accounting Awesomeness list for starters but would also point out specific tweeters like MACPA’s Tom Hood, next gen CPA rockstar Jason Blumer and exuberant Scott Heintzelman. What do these people have in common? They all know the importance of interaction without overkill, sharing just enough of their personal views and goings on mixed in with updates on the profession that keep followers informed and engaged. Now that is doing it right.
The hyper-connected crack tweeter makes the mistake of thinking more is better so even more must be even better. Twitter is not a popularity contest and having the most followers does you little good unless you can somehow convert multi-level marketers and pornbots into clients. Since that’s unlikely, the best thing the hyper-connected crack tweeter can do is take a look at why they are tweeting so much and what value they are offering to the Twitter community as a whole.
True value comes from both the connections and the service provided between those connections. For some, hearing what you had for breakfast is an endearing way to feel closer to strangers thousands of miles away who share the same interests and so a bit of that is allowed (keeps people from thinking you’re a tax-obsessed robot without a soul, right?) but sending out 25 #FollowFriday tweets in rapid succession is really just a cry for help and a sign that you need a primer in how to pack the most punch into your tweets without cluttering others’ streams with your nonsense.
Remember people, moderation. I know it’s exciting and it’s tempting to overdo it but let’s all remember that we have a tradition to uphold for the sake of the whole industry and that’s one of calm, collected and not at all easily excited cool.
Accounting News Roundup: Rangel’s Hearing Begins; Looking at the Odds on Tax Cuts; Baucus to Introduce Repeal of 1099 Requirement | 11.15.10
White House: No Permanent Tax Cut on Rich [WSJ]
Senior White House adviser David Axelrod said Sunday the president wouldn’t support a permanent extension of tax cuts for wealthy Americans but declined to say whether the White House would support a temporary extension.
Mr. Axelrod also reaffirmed President Barack Obama’s commitment to securing an extension of tax cuts for the middle class, saying this group of Americans has “taken a terrible beating.”
After several days in which U.S. lawmakers have attempted to gauge the White House’s willingness to compromise on tax-cut extensions, Mr. Axelrod said on NBC’s “Meet The Press” that there would be “no bend” on the president’s opposition to permanent cuts for couples making more than $250,000 a year and individuals making more than $200,000.
Rangel’s Hearing Set to Begin, but Details Are Few [NYT]
After two years of investigations and political recriminations, Mr. Rangel is scheduled to appear before a hearing of the House ethics committee on Monday to formally rebut charges that his fund-raising and personal finances violated Congressional rules.
Congress holds public ethics hearings so rarely — the last was in 2002 for Representative James A. Traficant, an Ohio Democrat who had been convicted of criminal charges — that the proceedings will open amid an air of novelty and uncertainty. Neither committee investigators nor Mr. Rangel will discuss who or how many people are on their witness lists, so it is unclear whether the case will end quickly or drag on for days.
What Are the Odds of an Obama Compromise on Bush Rates? [Tax Update Blog]
It’s not Vegas but this should help you get a feel for what the tax rates will be next year.
Accounting for Grant Thornton’s Accountants [China RealTime Report/WSJ]
The Journal takes another stab at the BDO/Grant Thornton jumble in Hong Kong and appears to have straightened things out.
Baucus will introduce legislation to repeal 1099 requirement [On the Money/The Hill]
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) said Friday that he intends to introduce legislation to repeal requirements that businesses file 1099 forms for purchases of $600 or more made from suppliers.
“I have heard small businesses loud and clear, and I am responding to their concerns,” Baucus said in a statement.
Nancy Pelosi Will Have You Know That She Wasn’t Responsible for the New 1099 Requirement Sneaking into Healthcare Reform
“One item that I think we all agree on that was in the Senate bill, not in the House bill, but became part of the law was 1099, which affects small businesses and small contractors and how they report their transactions. They know what it means, and they know they’d like to see it go. I think that’s probably the first place we could go together.”
~ The soon-to-be former Speaker of the House is willing to talk about this one.
Future Big 4 Associate Needs Help Choosing Between Commuting Hell and a Happy Marriage
Ed. Note: DWB was sober long enough today to pen this post for the Friday edition of Accounting Career Couch. If you’ve got a question for us email us at advice@goingconcern.com. We’ll dispense with further pleasantries and get right to it.
I just received three offers from two Big 4 firms in San Francisco (Deloitte and KPMG) for audit and one Big 4 firm for advisory internal audit in San Jose. I really like the idea of going into advisory but the problem is that I live in San Francisco and the advisory clients for this firm are all located around San Jose and the Silicon Valley. This would likely mean at least a one hour and 15 minute commute every day each way from SF to SJ and back again lients I would likely be working on from SF are all located within 20 minutes of my apartment in the city. Moving to San Jose is out of the question for me because my wife works in SF and I’m not ready for a divorce just yet. My question to you and Going Concern readers is should I take the advisory job despite the crazy commute or should I take one of the audit positions?
I’d still be very happy taking one of the audit positions but I’d be lying if I didn’t say that the more consistent working hours of advisory internal audit didn’t appeal to me much more than audit (no insane busy season in advisory). Much of this benefit would be negated by my much longer commute though. Also, if I choose advisory I would be likely getting reimbursed $0 for my commute since the job is based out of the SJ office and I am based in SF. Although $0.50 a mile doesn’t sound like a lot, it really does add up to several thousand dollars in missed reimbursement expenses for such a long commute (assuming 80 miles a day in reimbursable driving). Also, the advisory position pay is slightly less to begin with (approximately $1,500 less) than my audit offers. Other considerations that I am thinking about are that many people from the Deloitte office (mostly associates) have said that the Deloitte SF office is understaffed. To me this means more opportunity for advancement but also more hours of work. Also, I feel that if I started in audit I could do two years of audit and if I didn’t like it then could jump ship to advisory in SF rather than having to start at advisory in SJ and beg to get a transfer to the SF advisory practice in a year or two. So what should I do? Should the lengthy and costly commute for advisory versus audit be a deal breaker? Will I struggle to break into advisory after two years in audit if I decide to make the switch?
Hopefully I’ve given enough info about my choices so that DWBraddock will stop complaining about us not saying enough in our requests for advice.
Kudos to you and your detailed email. Peons of the accounting world – take note [Ed. note: but there is something to be said for brevity. Yeesh.].
First off, my advice is from the “this is usually how it works” camp. Are there exceptions? Of course, and I’m sure that commenters will point them out.
Are you sure you will be reimbursed for every single mile that you travel? The HR policy is typically the net difference between your home to the office and your home to the client site. For example if you live 50 miles from the office and the client site is 53 miles from your home, you are reimbursed for the three mile difference. I strongly encourage you to consult HR before you go re-adjusting the all-in value of the advisory offer with thousands of dollars of mileage.
Now that I crushed your dream of banking $1,000’s, let’s discuss the audit vs. internal audit battle. You make a lot of assumptions in your email, but I think these bullets cover everything you discussed:
• Internal audit should not be looked at as a green-lighted pass to jump around the advisory practice. Many advisory roles are target recruited and are very specialized from a work capacity point of view. The name “advisory” doesn’t mean the roles are similar; it’s simply a nicer way of saying “everything that’s not audit and tax.”
• You will not be fast-tracked at Deloitte just because they’re short staffed. You will work your ass off.
• It’s easier to go from internal audit to external audit, not the other way around (the way you mentioned).
• Don’t think a transfer is a simple process. There has to be a need in the office you want to transfer to, and considering you’re contemplating and office and practice switch-a-roo in one swift motion…really? This is not a game – this is business and not everyone gets what they want.
• PS – I forwarded this to your wife. She said you’re sleeping on the couch for the next week.
Clifton Gunderson Plays Hardball with KPMG, Other Audit Firms By Pitching a Low Ball
Meanwhile, back in the world of where people actually do work – a friend of GC sent us the following:
I heard an amazing price war story from a very reputable source. Thought you would enjoy.
A KPMG audit client in the Virginia Beach area went out to bid. KPMG bid approx $85K, a regional firm bid mid-60K, another firm approximately 40K, and Clifton Gunderson undercut everyone by bidding $19K on the audit. 19K! How in the hell is that possible? This is a prime example of what is happening out there.
Don’t know if this is SOP at Clifton but that price has to make for some horrendous realization or it’s simply staffed by an entry-level associate and a partner. Other theories on how they plan to pull this off without completely losing their shirts are welcome.
The PwC Hottie Scandal: A Female Perspective
Caleb likes to turn to me for all matters female-related (pay, the work-life lie, etc), so he asked if I would skip my CPA exam column today – since none of you sent me any questions to answer anyway – and give my opinion on the stupid PwC Ireland dbags who spread around pics of hotties.
“Sure,” I said, sharpening my claws.
First, have we NOT told you people over and over again DON’T USE WORK EMAIL FOR DEBAUCHERY AND GENERAL ASSHATTERY?! Speaking only for myself, I have specifically written here and on JDA at least a bazillion or more times warning of the dangers of sloppy conduct in a manner completely traceable by management, colleagues and clients.
What is it going to take to get this through your heads? I remind all of you that after Enron blew up every single email was made public by the Justice Department (and if you’re bored, you can search through said emails here but I warn you, some are gross and graphic even to me) so don’t think what you do on the company PP&E is limited to whomever you copy on your piggish emails.
And remember, with snitches everywhere, everyone has our email address and as obviously demonstrated by this whole PwC hottie email being sent to us first, chances are if you’re acting like an ass we’re going to find out and embarrass you. Call it our way of continuing to protect the public interest even though Caleb is retired from the profession and I am but an enthusiastic outsider without a CPA.
Second, I really don’t care if pigs decide to rank women in their office by hotness but if you’re going to do it, man up and attach cockshots so the girls can do their own ranking. You know, in the interest of fairness. If you’re not willing to apply the same sick standard to your own goods while contemplating the goods of your coworkers, leave the immature ranking to the bar and not extensive email chains. Seriously. If any of the PwC Hottie perps care to redeem themselves, cockshots may be addressed directly to me here. If I don’t receive any, I’ll assume that’s because you all are a bunch of shrunken cowards who aren’t getting any anyway.
Last but not least, don’t you guys have anything better to do? Seriously. This level of creepiness is just one level above stalking, frankly, and it is both disturbing and hilarious that these three PwC Ireland associates have absolutely nothing better to do than play Hot or Not on company time using company email. Can’t you just watch porn like SEC employees or play constant solitaire like normal folk wasting company time?
Sick. Entertaining and not all that offensive, just sick. I cannot speak for the rest of the female race and only for myself but I’m pretty sure many of them would also feel these idiots can possibly redeem themselves with cockshots. Commence to repentance, losers.
This May Be What the PwC Irish Lads Had in Mind
Creative spelling but you’ll get the idea.

FULL DISCLOSURE: the editor does not drive a Subaru.
Grant Thornton Employees in Chicago Feeling the Heat to Join Big 4
After reporting rumors that PwC was chasing Deloitte seniors in Chicago, now comes another report out of the House of Chipman:
Is it just me or is pwc trying really hard to bring in seniors in Chicago? The other day at GT, the same pwc recruiter called every S1 in audit asking if we’d be interested in moving over.
A few of us actually answered just to see what he had to say and he was pushing real hard in getting people to accept that if we made a move, we’d have to take a step down (S1 to move over to A3), and that they’d be making a large investment in keeping us long-term (at least through a promotion to manager). This is after we lost a S2 and an A2 who both moved to pwc. Plus, we’ve received several emails from other outside recruiters gauging our interest in the Big 4, not to mention my friends at the Big 4 trying to get me to send them my resume so they can refer me (for a much larger referral bonus, I’m assume). Not sure if this is juicy enough information, but that’s pretty much what’s happening right now over at G to the T.
Here’s the deal people – all the firms need people at the Senior Associate level. All the firms have made it known that they are hiring aggressively, both experienced and entry-level employees and the recruiters within the firms have jobs too. Besides, where are they supposed to look for the appropriate talent to fill their empty positions? Dunkin’ Donuts?
Grant Thornton, believe or not, has plenty of talented people and the Big 4 will take those people if they can get them. Management probably gets tired of all the bellyaching by employees about how short-staffed they are so the pressure is on the recruiters to get asses in the seats.
If you don’t want to be hassled by Big 4 recruiters, simply say, “I’m not interested, thanks,” and go on your merry way. But judging by all the complaining at GT, lots of employees are probably happy to entertain some options.
Your PwC Ireland Hottie Email Update: Three Employees Suspended
~ Update includes full statement from PwC Ireland.
In case you’ve been in a coma for the last two-ish days, you’re aware of the email that originated inside PwC Ireland that more or less likened the new female associates to a BCS ranking. Said ranking was scored by hotness (instead of bullshit algorithms), it made the rounds as these things often do, found its way into various publications and well…at least it’s Friday, amiright?
The latest news out of Ireland is that three of the male associates have been suspended as the firm’s investigation continues.
Ronan Murphy, a “senior partner,” has issued a statement saying that he ‘deeply regrets’ the incident which .
And as the investigation continues, the firm has spread the word on the inside, as the report from The Journal of Ireland also states:
An internal company message has since been circulated by PwC bosses, warning that anyone who breached the company’s code of conduct and regulations would face “serious disciplinary action”.
As far as the top 10 13 ladies are concerned, there are reports that they are more upset with the media coverage than they are with the actual email.
We really don’t have any revenge ideas on that front but a little media backlash is always expected.
A spokesperson for PwC in the States forwarded us PwC Ireland’s full statement:
We refer to the article in yesterday morning’s Irish Independent relating to emails circulated within and outside of PwC. We first became aware of this matter on Tuesday evening . We are taking it extremely seriously and have commenced a full investigation which is ongoing. We are taking all of the necessary steps and actions in accordance with the Firm’s policies and procedures. Our main concern is the impact of this on the women who were the subject of these emails. We met with them a number of times to give them all of the support they may need in dealing with this. We are particularly concerned and appalled at the compounding effect of the publication of the women’s photographs in some of the papers this morning and last evening. PwC regrets this situation as it always requires its people to adhere to the highest level of standards in their conduct and behaviour.
Accounting News Roundup: Obama Sticking to His Guns on Tax Cuts; Backdating Scandals Made Little Noise; Area Tax Con to Be Contestant on TV | 11.12.10
Obama says he’s not caving on tax cuts [CNN]
President Barack Obama declared Friday that his “number one priority” is preserving tax cuts for the middle class, and sharply denied that comments by his senior adviser David Axelrod suggest that his administration is about to cave in to Republicans who also want to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
“That is the wrong interpretation because I haven’t had a conversation with Democratic and Republican leaders,” Obama said of a Huffington Post article suggesting that in advance of negotiations with lawmakers next week, the White House has calculated that giving in on tax cuts for the rich is the only way to get the middle too.
Companies Would See Big Tax Shifts [WSJ]
Tax-reform plans proposed by President Obama’s deficit-cutting commission would radically change corporate tax policy and, business groups say, could improve U.S. competitiveness in global trade. But they also could create winners and losers among U.S. companies.
Business groups and economists have long sought fundamental changes to the tax code, which hasn’t been overhauled since 1986.
Pwning the social debate [AccMan]
Proceed with caution. Sayeth Dennis Howlett, “If the title of this post bamboozled you, the rest will make your head explode.”
House Dem leaders’ reactions to fiscal panel report differ sharply [The Hill]
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) came out swinging, calling the proposals “simply unacceptable,” while the two men battling to be her deputy, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (Md.) and whip James Clyburn (S.C.), released muted responses. Neither Hoyer nor Clyburn criticized the commission, avoiding a politically explosive set of ideas as they wrestle for support from their Democratic colleagues for the post of minority whip.
Backdating Scandal Ends With a Whimper [DealBook]
“These prosecutions went out with a whimper rather than a bang,” said Christopher J. Clark, a criminal defense lawyer at Dewey LeBoeuf who has done work on backdating cases. “With few convictions and no substantial sentences, juries and the courts simply did not agree with the government’s position that stock option backdating represented a serious financial crime.”
Richard Hatch still surviving life’s rocky road [Providence Journal]
Survivor champ, convicted tax dodger and “l’m living on borrowed 15-minutes-of-fame time” Richard Hatch is now going to be on the Celebrity Apprentice.
A QuickBooks Alternative for the Accounting-Phobic Owner [You’re the Boss/NYT]
Spooked by QuickBooks? WorkingPoint may be the solution for the debit-credit disinclined.
Newsweek, Daily Beast Set Merger [WSJ]
Under the proposed agreement, expected to be disclosed Friday, the two news organizations will be combined in a 50-50 joint venture called the Newsweek Daily Beast Co. The deal comes three weeks after the two sides abandoned talks of a merger over a disagreement about control.
