AICPA Council Approves 12-Point Plan to Do F*ck All to Solve the Accountant Shortage
Last week, the AICPA released a revised pipeline acceleration plan, the goal of which is to get more young people into accounting to save the profession from extinction. To save you a click, I’m putting it here. At its spring meeting in Washington this week, the AICPA’s governing body (“Council”) approved this plan. Yay. Cue […]
Here’s the AICPA’s Revised 12-Point Plan to Herd Students Into Accounting
Good news, everyone! The AICPA released an expanded pipeline plan today. If you assumed the plan would revolve around an aggressive effort to bully firms into paying people what they’re worth, you’d be wrong. “The detailed plan features input from a significant set of stakeholders and calls for those stakeholders to work together to […]
I Love Accounting. So I Had to Leave.
At its core, accounting is a challenging career that requires growth and learning and can usually pay pretty well. There’s lots to do, and it requires developing expertise and finding ways to solve puzzles. Organizations need folks who can understand broad frameworks and rules and interpret that to produce all sorts of things they need. […]
The Accountant Shortage Isn’t Bad Enough For NASBA to Entertain Dropping the 150 Hour Requirement
When we talk about why no one wants to be an accountant anymore, a handful of things come up in every thread. Let’s quickly get them down in case an alien who just landed on Earth this morning Googles “accountant shortage,” arrives on this article, and wishes to learn more about the causes. Salaries — […]
Wall Street Journal Addresses the Accountant Shortage, Suggests a Recession Could Fix It
I made my entrée into accounting way back in 2007, at the time my job involved a three-hour roundtrip journey across four Bay Area counties and back and I was looking for something a bit closer to home. Shortly after starting in CPA review, I started seeing more and more “For Sale” signs on the […]
Word Hits TikTok That Big 4 Firms Are Cheap Bastards, “It’s Modern Day Slavery”
Deloitte Australia is trying to be transparent by releasing salary data but apparently this tactic isn’t working, not with Daily Mail writing headlines like Young Aussie reveals why many millennials no longer want to work in corporate jobs – after boomers said the generation was ‘lazy and entitled’ that is. Here’s the TikTok that inspired […]
PSA: Do NOT Take a Pay Cut For the ‘Privilege’ of Working Remotely
In the coming weeks and months, you’re going to see lots of headlines warning that the workers’ market we are blessed to experience today is shifting back to one that favors employers as the economy starts circling the toilet. You already have seen these headlines, I’m sure. Here’s one: some HR clown who works for […]
10 Lucrative Side Hustle Ideas for Big 4 Accountants
Things are getting pretty bad financially for all of us right now; grocery trips are digging deeper into our pockets every time we pick up a few things, rents are rising, and gas is up to $37 a gallon ($40 by the time I finish this sentence probably). Inflation is expected to remain high through […]
The IRS Wants to Hire 10,000 New Employees in the Next Year. So What Are They Paying?
Last Friday I buried a link about the IRS’ latest hiring push in Footnotes but I think it deserves its own little mention if only to discuss the pay. That’s all that matters, right? Before we get to that, my handlers have asked me to remind you that Footnotes is a weekly wrap-up of accounting […]
Public Accounting Firms Don’t Need to Increase Salaries to Retain Staff Says Guy Who Obviously Never Worked In Public Accounting
In the 12 years since this website was founded, we’ve heard a lot of complaints from accounting students and early career public accountants. A LOT. Many things have changed since 2009, but one thing has remained consistent all these years and it’s the overwhelming sentiment that public accountants are paid far too little for the […]
Number of the Day: $5.7 Million
No, that isn’t the latest fine given to a Big 4 firm by the SEC for shitty auditing. That is the median cash compensation—after graduation and working for 35 years—for someone who got an MBA from one of the top 50 business schools in the U.S., according to an analysis for the website Poets&Quants by […]
Female Big 4 CPA: ‘My Performance and My Compensation Do Not Match’
Just wanted to say that this article (“Women, Can You Love Your Job But Still Be Pissed About Your Compensation?”) really struck a nerve, because it is TRUE! This week in particular, I found myself having this exact conversation on multiple occasions. I absolutely love my job, my team, and the partner I work for, […]
Women, Can You Love Your Job But Still Be Pissed About Your Compensation?
If there was such a thing as a “I love my job” gap, men and women would be equals, according to the latest U.S. salary survey from the Institute of Management Accountants. And that boggles my mind because, as we all know, women’s salaries in accounting are definitely not equal to men’s. So as a […]
Protip: Moving Soon? You Might Want to Hide Your ZIP Code From HR
Remember a couple weeks ago when we discussed potential work-from-home adjustments for salaried workers now living in lower COL areas thanks to the Rona? In case you forgot, the gist of it is that this is already happening in the tech industry, so there’s no reason to assume accounting couldn’t possibly follow suit. The comments […]
WFH In 2021? Get Ready For Those Remote Salary Adjustments
I hate to be the bearer of bad news as we head into a brand new year but just in case y’all thought this WFH thing would mean potentially being able to upgrade to some huge rural property at your generous “city” salary … not so fast. A recent Bloomberg article says it’s already happening […]
Compensation Watch ’19: Partners Are Down with IPP
I got an email the other day about the latest Rosenberg MAP Survey being available for purchase, and because I don’t have an extra $500 laying around (and neither do The Powers That Be at Accountingfly), I went looking for highlights from this year’s survey instead. And I stumbled upon some updated info about income […]
Compensation Watch ’19: Highest-Paying Cities Don’t Give Accountants the Most Bang for Their Buck
Last week, we perused a report from AdvisorSmith on the 50 best U.S. cities in which accountants can pursue their careers and gave you the top 25. Two of the variables used by AdvisorSmith for its ranking were average annual accounting salaries per city and cost of living, so let’s focus on those today. Using […]
Compensation Watch ’19: Tax Professionals
Hey there, tax jockeys. How’s your Wednesday been so far? Feeling less whiny today? Good. We have some new salary data to share with you, from the folks over at Korn Ferry, that might be of interest. The management consulting firm dug deep into its pay database, did some math, punched some buttons, and came […]
Compensation Watch ’19: Credentialed Accountants vs. Non-credentialed Accountants
In its annual salary survey, the Institute of Management Accountants always includes a section comparing compensation for accountants who are either CPAs, CMAs (Certified Management Accountants), or both with accountants who hold neither credential. And every year the IMA finds that credentialed accountants make more money than those without a CPA or CMA. Makes sense. […]
Compensation Watch ’19: Internal Auditors
Ah, internal auditors. The “guardians of trust,” as Institute of Internal Auditors President and CEO Richard Chambers likes to call you. So how much money do “guardians of trust” make these days? Let’s take a look at the latest salary data from Randstad, Robert Half, and Accounting Principals. Randstad Randstad organizes non-executive accounting and finance […]
Compensation Watch ’19: CFOs
Some of you grinding away in public accounting might have “champagne wishes and caviar dreams” of being a CFO one day. So, let’s see how well that job pays these days, courtesy of three accounting and finance salary guides that have been released in the past six months. Randstad Randstad organizes executive titles in its […]
Compensation Watch ’19: Controllers
TPTB would like Adrienne and I to try to post an article each week that is compensation-related because, well, you guys like money and you guys like to read about how much money you could or should be making. So now that Randstad just released its 2019 Salary Guide, and Robert Half and Accounting Principals […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for KPMG Compensation Discussions (2018)
So we might be a little late on this one, but who cares? Obviously you guys don’t, you’ve all but given up on these open threads come comp time. As such, this may be our last open thread of comp season, not just for this year but for good. It sucks we have to go […]
CONFIRMED: Public Accounting Firm Partners Are Filthy Rich
Hear that squeaky, rattling sound? That’s a partner pushing a wheelbarrow full of cash through the hallways of your firm. Accounting Today has some highlights from the latest Rosenberg MAP Survey, which includes this tidbit: This year, the survey found that income per partner increased to $441,000, or 3 percent higher than last year. However, […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for Deloitte Compensation Discussions (2018)
If the last couple years have taught us anything, it’s that Deloitte compensation conversations are probably going down this week in some offices. And by “conversations,” we mean raises are online and ratings are plotted out on scatter graphs. Semantics, ya know? In looking at last year’s Deloitte comp discussion, we discovered that y’all Green Dotters […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for EY Compensation Discussions (2018)
Ya know, I don’t know why we’re even bothering with this since Going Concern sucks but on the off chance one of you gets his BVDs in a bunch over us not doing it, here we are. Historically, the emails start trickling in right about this time each year, presumably after the rulers of Ernstonia are able to […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for PwC Compensation (2018)
So, yeah, the whole “putting the 2018 PwC compensation thread in Open Items” thing didn’t go too well. After just two responses (thanks to SlowlyDying1065 and Franchise) and a minus-27 vote rating, this thread had become a dumpster fire. But now that we’ve resurrected the article comment section, we’ve taken this discussion out of Open […]
These 10 Accounting and Finance Jobs Are Hot, Hot, Hot
So say the folks at recruiting firm CyberCoders, so plan your career accordingly: In 2018, the CyberCoders data shows that the most in-demand accounting and finance position is financial advisor, with an average salary of $85,860, followed by loan officer at $68,000 and tax supervisor with an average salary of $96,944. The job of financial […]
The Going Concern Accounting Compensation Report Is Here
There’s been lots of talk this summer about compensation, as usual. It’s been a major part of Going Concern’s coverage since the site started in 2009. Over the years, one of the shortcomings of the coverage has been the focus on the largest accounting firms. And it’s true! We’ve focused on the Big 4 and […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for Deloitte Compensation Discussions (2017)
Apologies to all the Deloitte compensation junkies out there experiencing withdrawal symptoms. We received this tip awhile back and, judging by the timing, many of you are anxious to yak about what’s going on: The national call was today and comp talks with partners won’t be happening until after 8/17. The raises take effect in […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for EY Compensation Discussions (2017)
Okay, okay. I’m sure some people inside the House of Black and Yellow need a break from writing thoughtful emails to Mark Weinberger. It seems that yakking about EY compensation is the perfect way to do that. The first requests came in yesterday and have been picking up steam today. A tip from yesterday notified […]
Want to Find and Keep Quality Accounting Talent? Pay Them More, Already
Smiles and handshakes will ensue. The AICPA’s mega report on the supply of accounting graduates and demand for accounting recruits will be out any day now. If the CPA robots have proliferated to a far greater degree than anyone could’ve thought, then that will be bad for lots of you. However, I believe we’ll learn […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for Grant Thornton Compensation Discussions (2017)
By the sound of things, it’s time for us to open the gate on the Grant Thornton compensation thread. This is a little strange because, in years past, tips usually start rolling into our inbox in the last half of July. One message we received over the weekend, however, might explain the delay: Comp releasing […]
Wanna Talk About Money?
Looking for compensation threads? Right this way for conversations that are still going on: PwC BDO If your firm is holding discussions about performance reviews and compensation adjustments this summer, email [email protected] to share details or request a thread.
Here’s Your Open Thread for BDO Compensation Discussions (2017)
We’ve had a couple of requests for the BDO compensation thread, and the calendar is right, so we’re happy to oblige. One tipster that works in advisory told us “I just received an email from the partner saying to stop by his office” but added, “I don’t expect anything significant.” BDO hasn’t released its revenue […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for PwC Compensation (2017)
You’ve got to hand it to PwC, they’ve really embraced announcing stuff on Twitter. I’m looking forward to the day when people starting tweet their PwC compensation details at @going_concern. Anyway, here’s a tweet from last Friday: It’s #PwCPromotionDay! Incredibly proud to be celebrating everyone who is marking a career milestone today! https://t.co/vJtwzFiqrh pic.twitter.com/Mu8kwbWooh — […]
The Window Is Closing: Take Going Concern’s Accounting Salary Survey
Our first annual Accounting Salary Survey is off to a great start. If you have not yet completed the survey, what have you been doing? Right now we now have hundreds of responses from people at large, mid-tier and small firms, spanning the full range of industries, experience and roles, all the way from staff […]
Take Going Concern’s Accounting Salary Survey
Are You Getting Paid What You Are Worth? It is time to assess where the accounting industry is headed with regard to compensation levels. This is your chance to see how your comp plan stacks up against the industry. You are invited to participate in Going Concern’s first annual Accounting Salary Survey, which we are […]
LinkedIn Becoming More Miserable By Telling Everyone How Underpaid They Are
Pardon me for not paying attention, but someone just sent me this article about LinkedIn Salary and, I have to say, it's a pretty good idea. Not that it's novel or anything, but it will get people to 1) Give LinkedIn more data; 2) Get people to visit a site that they hate visiting. Maybe […]
Hey Look, Some Bay Area Big 4 Senior Associates Aren’t Happy With Their Pay
While I was on the road last week, a thread from r/accounting dropped into my inbox: Big 4 Bay Area office thought it would be a good idea to screw seniors with one of the worst raises since 2008 and whoa boy: They thought an $85k cap on all Seniors, regardless of performance, was a […]
How to Make More Money in Accounting
This is sponsored content brought to you by Benedictine University. Almost everyone wants to make more money and why not? A bigger paycheck helps with a lot of things — paying off student loans, saving for a down payment on a major purchase, funding a new venture, travel. If you’re a partner at a firm […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for KPMG Compensation Discussions (2016)
Now that it’s fall, many public accounting professionals have been rewarded for all the hard work they put in last year. Some people are happy, some people are sad and everyone is still thinking, “I don’t get paid enough for this shit.”
Starting Salaries for Accounting Positions Keep Going Up
If you're a college student studying accounting, prepare your gloat face. Starting salaries for accounting and finance positions are expected to go up 3%-4.3% next year according to Robert Half's new salary guide.
Here’s Your Open Thread for Deloitte Compensation Discussions (2016)
Just as soon as we put of up the EY compensation thread, tipsters out of Deloitte started crowing for theirs, including this one:
Here’s Your Open Thread for EY Compensation Discussions (2016)
The bombing raid of requests for the EY compensation thread started late last week and didn’t let up over the weekend or this morning.
Accounting Firms and the New Overtime Rules
As you may have heard, the Obama administration announced new rules this past week that will make millions of salaried workers eligible for overtime: Under the new regulation to be issued by the Labor Department on Wednesday, most salaried workers earning up to $47,476 a year must receive time-and-a-half overtime pay when they work more […]
Comp Watch: Strategy& People Having the Last Laugh
Hey gang, remember a couple years ago when PwC acquired Booz & Company? Remember how we all hoped the new firm would be named something fun like Boozerhouse or BoozeCoop or Company? Remember how they went with Strategy& and no one got it and it harkened everyone back to Monday and we all had a […]
Accountants Earn More Than Philosophers (Barely)
Since it seems to be a popular topic today, you might be wondering if you, one of the many accountants across this great land, make more than a philosopher. And according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, you do! But it's closer than you might like. The annual mean wage for accountants and auditors is […]
Employers Willing to Haggle Over Salary for Decent Accountants
Accounting Prinicpals has found that employers looking to hire accounting and finance professionals are more willing to negotiate over salary than they were "six months […] to a year ago." That's good news for anyone who correctly answers the most important interview question that accountants are asked. [JofA]
Compensation Threads, Now With Extended Hours
Because our editor has been predisposed most of this week and you've been so well behaved, we're re-opening compensation discussion comments for your reading and kvetching enjoyment. It's also a nice surprise if you were late to your firm's compensation discussion and didn't get to participate (although it doesn't explain what you've been doing all […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for EY Compensation Discussions (2015)
There’s been a steady stream of tips coming in for the last week about EY comp discussions starting today and we understand that people are anxious.
Here’s how one tipster put it:
This Way, Please
You look lost. You'd like to find some lively discussions about compensation at the largest accounting firms, you say? Lucky you, we know of some: PwC McGladrey Baker Tilly Grant Thornton BDO If your performance reviews and compensations chats have occurred and you want to discuss them, send us info or start a thread in […]
#TBT: What a Competent American Accountant Made in 1910
Since you guys care so much about salaries, let's talk about what the average accountant made in the year 1910. This was before the The American Association of Public Accountants (AAPA) changed its name to The American Institute of Accountants, which would become the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants in 1957. From this pretty […]
Celebrate the New Year with Accounting Salaries Charted by Company Type, Role, Service Line and More
We present the following charts for your enjoyment, amusement, and/or bewilderment.
Comp Watch ’14: KPMG Variable Comp is Out and Some Folks Aren’t Pleased
This just arrived in our inbox this morning, let's skip the formalities and get right to it: FY15 variable comp ranges for us behind-the-scenes slaves were announced today, 12/11. Who are they kidding? Don't they realize nearly everyone at Manager and below gets a 3 rating no matter how much they do, how much they […]
Sony Hack Also Leaked Deloitte Salaries, Reveals Gender Gap
We haven’t reported on the Sony hack yet because it has absolutely nothing to do with public accounting. Until today.
Here’s Your Open Thread for Public Accounting Full-Time Offers: Fall 2014
Did you recently get an offer? Have you been dying to have an avenue to share how much you'll be making and who you'll be working for? BOY are you in luck! This is your place to find out how your offer stacks up. If you're feeling cheated — or, worse, if you didn't get […]
Survey: What Was the Salary at Your First Accounting Job?
If you remember, that is. Personally, I do. The job was with a boutique CPA firm and they offered, and I accepted, $43k. This was 2003. I imagine most people vividly remember their first job's salary. The feel of the paper it was printed on or the person who called with the news. But the […]
This Is Your Last Chance to Get In on the Going Concern Compensation Survey
Hi, people. Everyone having a lovely day? Yeah, me too. Now that KPMG compensation is up and rolling in, we are ready to wrap the first annual Going Concern compensation survey. If it feels like this thing has been open forever, that's because it has. We're all ready for this thing to be over. The […]
How to Find All the Compensation Threads on Going Concern For Total Idiots
So, the other day we got this gem in the tip box — which, by the way, isn't supposed to be used for crap like this as I have told you people 1,000 times: This website is terrible and very disappointing this year. It is impossible to find comp watch's for 2014 for big 4. […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for KPMG Compensation Discussions (2014)
We have held off on this one as long as we can, but some of you are anxious to get the results from our Compensation Survey and the only thing holding us up is this here compensation discussion. So let's get to it! Since compensation season kicked off, we've learned that accounting firms are having […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for Deloitte Compensation Discussions (2014)
The Life at Deloitte Twitter account didn't tweet about compensation discussions happening (although we do know she recently moved to the new Orlando consulting hub and she's a legal Florida citizen now), but the tip box delivers: Deloitte Tax national comp webcast was today. On Aug 21 everyone will receive a statement online with raise […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for BDO Compensation Discussions (2014)
Well, folks, it appears BDO pulled a fast one on us and changed up the game by coming out with compensation way ahead of schedule (for BDO, anyway). Numbers have been known to come out as late as September in the past, which meant we totally ignored this person who wrote us at the end […]
(UPDATE) Here’s Your Open Thread for Grant Thornton Compensation Discussions (2014)
This just in: GT has received performance ratings in the West Region (If not entire U.S.). Compensation talks are beginning for FY14. OH JOY, someone alert the media! Oh wait, we are the media. Well consider us alerted! Last year, the news was bad, even by Grant Thornton standards. We aren't sure what to expect […]
Compensation Survey: Which Firm Pays the Most?
We've only been talking about this endlessly since we first put it together but until we close the Going Concern Compensation Survey (hey look there's a link to it, you should go take it), we're going to keep talking about it. In order to keep your interest, we're going to tease you with a fancy […]
Comp Watch ’14: Here’s Your Open Thread For McGladrey Compensation Discussions
We're coming straight out of Comp…ensation today with word that McG is joining the comp party with talks that started late last week: I just wanted to mention that McGladrey has started their compensation meetings so you may want to create a thread at this point. Consider your wish granted, young man. Two things: this […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for EY Compensation Discussions (2014)
Yes, we know this is early but the natives are getting restless, as evidenced by our inboxes: EY compensation and promotion talks have began in the NY area We reached out to a friend of GC currently sentenced to 15 to life at EY in NY who could not confirm this: I can’t confirm what […]
(UPDATE) Here’s Your Open Thread for PwC Compensation Discussions (2014)
Over the last 24 hours, we have been bombarded with tips that PwC comp discussions are happening. Historically, PwC has been first to kick off comp talks and it appears that's the case this year as we've yet to hear about any discussions at other firms. Let's head to the tip box and see what […]
Comp Watch ’13: Happy New Year, KPMG!
As we watch the hours, minutes, and seconds tick away to the shutdown of the federal government, it'd be inappropriate if we did not mention that KPMG's fiscal year also ends tonight. Unlike the feds, everyone at the House of Klynveld will be reporting for duty tomorrow (previously arranged PTO, excepted); however, the latest comments on […]
BREAKING: Staff Leaving CPA Firms for More Money
According to the Rosenberg MAP Survey, which you can buy here if you feel like dropping $450, turnover at some CPA firms saw their turnover go up 50% in 2012. GAHHHHHH! Wait, it's NBD: Yes, turnover increased 50%. But the 16-18% range is about where staff turnover was at before the recession and where it […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for Grant Thornton Compensation Discussions (2013)
ICYMI: McGladrey Compensation Discussions Have Started and People Aren’t Getting Their Hopes Up
If you're of the House of McGladrey and you can't find the compensation thread, let me point you this way. Since conversations started on Friday, reactions are just starting to roll in and will continue through next Friday, but one source responded to our question of people's expectations this way: Tempered would be a good […]
Here’s Your Open Thread for McGladrey Compensation Discussions (2013)
Historically, mid-July is when things get rolling at McGladrey and yesterday we received the first notice that things were starting this week. Email went out that compensation and bonus discussions would begin on 7/12 and conclude by 7/26. I think a McG comp thread is in order. So you have all of today to gird […]
Why Yes, PwC Compensation Discussions Are Still Going On
It's week two of discussions at Papa Whiskey Charlie, so if you're looking for that compensation thread, let me point you in this direction. You're welcome.
Here’s Your Open Thread for PwC Compensation Discussions (2013)
Severe CPA Cheapness, Fiscal Cliffs, and Big 4 Houses of Hogwarts: The Ten Most Popular Going Concern Posts of 2012
It's the last week of the year and that means no one is doing much of anything besides exchanging gifts for stuff they actually want and planning all the New Year's resolutions they won't keep. Your humble servants here at Going Concern are attempting to recharge our batteries this week, but we know you can't […]
(UPDATE) Recruiting Season: Public Accounting Salaries for The Starting Class of 2013
~ UPDATE includes updated salary info after a flood of new submissions. Thanks to everyone that wrote in. Welcome to the final recruiting season roundup for 2012. Thanks for all your questions and freak outs this fall. If you ever encounter any interesting situations or simply have something on your mind that you want to […]
Compensation Watch ’13: Everyone
If you're one of those people that likes envisioning their career path several years in advance in order to make a bunch of elaborate plans that will likely be thrown off course by one or more life events/bad decisions, Robert Half's annual salary guide will prove quite useful. It has plenty of data, probably more […]
Big 4 Advisory Intern Wants To Squeeze Blood Out Of A Turnip
Your daily serving of vegetables, brought to you by GC. Subject: Advice: negotiating a starting salary GC,I am graduating in December from a masters in accounting program and I am currently interning at Big 4 firm in advisory. I am hoping to get an offer after the internship and join the firm in January. Is […]
And Now, Let’s Compare Three Different 15-year Compensation Scenarios
By now, you've probably had a chance to meticulously dissect the two posts that illustrated what your compensation at a public accounting firm will roughly be over a 15 year period. The revelation that you can make a pretty nice living over that time span did little to convince some people that this public accounting […]
Let’s Take a Second Look at a 15-year Trajectory of Big 4 Compensation
Earlier this week we shared some data that was gifted to us by an accountant who had nothing better to do during his AUD study break than create a spreadsheet charting your compensation for the first 15 years of your illustrious Big 4 career. Everyone seemed pretty grateful for it though, as it got people […]
What Can You Expect to Make at a Big 4 Firm Over a 15 Year Period?
It’s mid-January, which means that at some point in the next four to six weeks or so, you’ll say to yourself, “I don’t get paid enough to do this shit.” And you might be right! But the good news is starting salaries for accountants keep going up. If you’re simply annoyed with your current boss/lunch/life […]
Even After Obtaining That Sweet CFO Gig, You’ll Probably Still Bitch About Your Salary
Especially if you’re the jealous type.
According to accounting firm BDO, middle market CFOs typically earn 55% to 60% of their CEO’s pay, but in 2010 they earned just 40%, on average.
In a study of 600 public companies with annual revenues ranging from $25 million to $1 billion, BDO found that CFOs earned an average of $927,743 in 2010, a 19% increase from 2010, while CEOs earned an average of $2.34 million, representing a 25% increase from the previous year.
[via CFOJ]
Study Suggests That If You’re Not Happy with Your Salary, You Might Try Being More of a Contrarian Dick
[R]esearchers examined “agreeableness” using self-reported survey data and found that men who measured below average on agreeableness earned about 18% more—or $9,772 more annually in their sample—than nicer guys. Ruder women, meanwhile, earned about 5% or $1,828 more than their agreeable counterparts. [WSJ]
Life after Public Accounting: Is the Grass (aka Money) Really Greener?
As summer winds down, those of you that are still living the Big 4, et al. life may be wondering if you’ve squandered the last couple of months getting overserved on patios and roofdecks, spending hours by the pool and vacationing to exotic locales. You might say, “All this time I was having FUN, I could have been looking for my dream job. What was I thinking?”
For those capital market servants whose past season was simply too much to bear, you probably aren’t saying these words and have, at some point, spend a few weeks (or several) trying to find that perfect new job. For those who did finally pull the trigger on their public accounting career, a plea from a reader:
Can you guys do an article on the types of jobs (read: salary increases) former Big 4/public accountants have taken in industry (or somewhere else) after leaving this past busy season? I need a reminder of why I still work in audit.
Typically, auditors are in constant “remind me why I do this” mode but for the purposes of this post, we ask that tax and advisory professionals give the lowdown on their new gigs as well. Possible topics of interest to keep in mind when commenting:
• Did you simply leave for a bigger salary or bonus or were there work-life issues? If so, were your expectations in the marketplace met?
• Did you leave for a private company, nonprofit/government or – GASP – another public accounting firm?
• Is anyone going back to school?
• Anyone just saying fuck it and getting out of the numbers game altogether because they realized that money isn’t all it’s cracked up to be?
• Grabbag.
Comp Watch ’11: Deloitte Audit Comp Call Details Are In
Thanks to our tipster who spilled the dirty details just moments ago:
No specific salary increases or bonuses were addressed, as the call was high-level. But here are the approximate levels:
Raise and Bonus Percentages:
3-rated (average) – 7% salary increase, 5% bonus
2-rated (middle) – 8.5% salary increase, 7% bonus
1-rated (highest) – 10% salary increase, 10% bonus
Milestone promotions (senior, manager, senior manager) would be 3 to 5% on top of the salary increases above. No additional bonuses or raises for new managers.
As expected, Deloitte talked a bit about salary multipliers, but not nearly to the extent that PwC did in their presentation. Of note on this front are the fact that experienced audit seniors can expect to earn 1.3x their starting salaries, as opposed to 1.5x at PwC. Also notable is the Deloitte model is “total compensation” (salary + bonus + rewards received), whereas PwC’s structure appears to apply only to salary.
Comp Watch ’11: Let’s Discuss the KPMG Comp Talks That Started Last Week
We’re really sorry for taking so long to get this in order, or rather, Caleb should be sorry because it happened on his watch but, in his defense, he was off in the UK kissing up to the people who actually own this website and therefore technically make sure our checks are signed every month. So we’ll give him a pass. I’m sure ignoring KPMG compensation had absolutely nothing to do with any residual feelings he may have for the firm he once called home.
Anyway, we got word last week that some more KPMG comp talks started some time last week (OK, so they started last Monday) and apparently they are making all those fools at Uncle Ernie’s look pretty lame with their 11 percents.
We have it on good authority that, at least for our audit staff tipster, last week’s comp talks were probably going to bring news somewhere in the 16% range or thereabouts.
Well great, that’s not very helpful at this point, is it? We’ll have to badger our tipster incessantly to see how that worked out (we never heard further so maybe they took that 16.4%, bought a bunch of gold and ran off to Sri Lanka) but if any of you KPMGers have good news to share, please let it launch below.
As always, it’s extra helpful if you A) avoid commenting with your full name so the partners don’t get their Depends in a bunch over you blabbing your salary all over the Internet and B) include where you are, what service line you are in and any bonus.
Earlier: (UPDATE) Comp Watch ‘11: Early Returns Are in at KPMG
Can Any Big 4 Folk in Nashville Help This Young Lady?
A call for action, Nashville market, we know you’ve been dying to have your moment in the spotlight.
I currently work for a Big 4 firm but I’m looking to move to Nashville. I know firms vary from each city and would like to get information on Nashville before deciding to try and transfer or see if there were openings in other firms. I would like to know the sizes of the different office and the clients for each firm. Is there any where that shows this information? I’ve tried searching online and can’t find anything and was hoping I could get input from anyone who has worked in that market.
Nashville, huh? We’re guessing there must be a man involved here but without knowing the specifics, you’re doing the right thing by sniffing the market out first. You probably already know that you’re not going to be making San Francisco or New York money but hopefully we can get some info for you.
If no one is going to speak up, there’s always Glassdoor. It lists Deloitte manager salaries in the $60 – $105k range. You didn’t say what firm you’re looking at (or if you care) but that’s a start.
Comp Watch ’11: Ernst & Young Comp Discussions Start Today
We’ve received several short, anxious emails (presumably all from Uncle Ernie’s nervous camp) tipping us off to the fact that E&Y comp discussions are going down this week, so it must be true. Of course, this post is useless without actual comp numbers, which we’re sure you’ll give us as soon as you have your sit-downs.
Hi Going Concern –
To give you heads up, E&Y comp and promotions dicussions [sic] are happening this week (they’re happening today in my office). Perhaps it’s a good time to open the new thread on the topic.
Cheers,
E&Yer
Great, so does this mean the Ohio and Michigan crews have already packed up and are ready to bail if they get anything less than whatever it was they are holding out for?
Rumors so far are that raises will be in line with last year’s, which were not at all disappointing considering that we are still (not technically) in a recession, not to mention all that Lehman drama the E&Y lawyers are still hashing out. Too soon? Anyway, as usual, you’re welcome to entertain each other with disparaging comments about the size of your, er, comp packages until we hear news on actual numbers.
Update: Looks like some pretty good numbers are rolling in but please, for the sake of your fellow EY brethren, if you want to share your comp info, be sure to at a minimum include where you are (general metro or region is fine), what service line you are in, your rating (hint: this is a number) and, of course, the actual new pay and bonus number (if any).
Survey: CPA Combined with CMA Will Put More Money in Your Pocket
This survey was done by the Institute of Management Accountants, so of course the AICPA would encourage you to wait for the CGMA to get a dual certification but if you just can’t wait, then the CMA should work fine.
IMA’s Annual Salary Survey explores salary trends of accounting and finance professionals and reveals that certain industries are faring better than others. Public accounting ranked first in terms of average salary, at $125,488, and second in average total compensation, at $153,395, both in 2010 and 2009. The survey was mailed to respondents last December, and the results have just been released this month.
“The CMAs in this year’s study make a little more than the CPAs,” said Dennis Whitney, senior vice president of certification at the Institute of Certified Management Accountants. “For the younger professionals, it’s a little more per year. The number does seem to go up as you get older, but generally it’s a couple of thousand dollars. But the thing that’s the most dramatic is that people with both the CPA and the CMA fare the best.”
For those with both certifications, the difference can be not only $27,000, but $35,700.
“Dual certification is definitely worthwhile,” said Whitney. “It broadens your competencies. You have not only the financial accounting and auditing skills, but also the financial planning, analysis, and control skills and decision-making, which are very important today.”
Certified Accountants Earn $27,000 More [AT]
Earlier:
The Path to CFO: Is the CMA Credential Just as Important as the CPA?
Comp Watch ’11: Happy New Year’s Eve Deloitte!
It’s the final day of fiscal 2011 in GreenDotville and it seems fitting that we have a little comp discussion:
Word is coming out of the senior manager meeting last week that raises and bonuses are going to be “very good” this year. Of course, those are just rumors, and that’s what the firm said in 2009 when comp increases averaged less than 1% across the board. Other than the mid-year salary bump last fall, there have been no raises, bonuses, or any other incentives to keep slaving away since last summer.
As you may know, Deloitte moved to a decentralized audit planning approach this year, causing hundreds (if not thousands) of additional hours to be added to each engagement. With a shortage of seniors and managers as it is, it’s been close to a breaking point for everyone in the audit function. And, of course, it’s an internal mandate, so unlike the glut of work that came as a result of SOX, Uncle-D is unable to recover any of those costs from clients. Senior management is aware of the problem (Steve VanArsdell said it was the worst busy season he’s ever seen in his 36-year career), but as yet no solutions have been offered other than to say that “year 2” of the new approach should be easier.
Interestingly, the Ivory Tower here at D&T has been suspiciously quiet regarding comp and other issues. Consensus among the employees is that they’re panicked and haven’t yet figured out how to dig out of the hole that they dug for themselves over the past few years. They’ve moved up the timetable on the compensation and rating process by a couple of weeks, which means that we’ll be getting our raise and bonus information in early August instead of mid-August this year (to which, most employees have responded with, “BFD”). To most of us working here, it feels like it’s all going to be too little, too late to win back the loyalty of the current workforce here at Uncle D.
But hey, I hear PwC is hiring!
Our tipster sounds pretty glum for a NYE celebration, so if you can cheer him up with contrary rumors, please do so. Of course, you can always corroborate his suspicions if that’s what you’re hearing as well. And don’t forget to drop all your new leaders a good luck email. Everyone deserves a little thumbs-up on the first day in a new job.
(UPDATE) Future Big 4 Advisory Associate Wants to Negotiate a Better Salary
Ed. note: Got a question for the career advice brain trust? Email us at [email protected].
Caleb –
“Long-time/first-time, love the show.” I was hoping you and the gang could help; I have received an offer from Big 4 Advisory as a Senior, and considering the current market, and that firms are expanding advisory quickly and trying to capture market share and increase revenues, I am wondering if I would be able to negotiate my salary north. I did not receive a signing bonus, but I know the Big 4 can be touchy about your salary, so maybe I should look into getting a signing bonus? I wanted to get your expert panel’s opinion, as well as your millions of readers. Thanks for your help.
Signed –
Sleeping well in San Diego
San Diego Napper,
Welcome to the show. It’s great to see that Caleb is getting more advisory professionals reaching out. We’re all one underpaid, overworked professional services family so keep the emails coming.
Regarding your question, the timing is probably too late for you to maximize your bargaining power, both with your firm and in the greater job market. Being that you’re a senior (now a newly minted graduate) the window of opportunity has probably passed. You most likely received your fulltime offer either after completing a summer internship in 2010 or during the fall semester of your senior year. Then would have been the ideal time to “shop around” to the other Big 4 to see if you could earn yourself a competing offer. By this point in time, both the Big 4 and the major players in the consulting market have met their entry level hiring needs.
Similarly, without a competing offer in your back pocket, asking for a sign-on bonus now is the equivalent of looking for a free hand out. From browsing this website you know that’s generally not the way things work. Not to mention the fact that your firm wants its new hire class starting at the same monetary level; should you receive a sign-on, they’d be inclined to throw something to everyone. Why? Because all it takes is a team happy hour and you drunkenly blurting out, “I called up HR, spoke my mind and landed five grand, suck on that,” to stir up all kinds of angst within your practice.
Unless new hires are reneging on their acceptances and jumping ship for much lucrative (and last minute) offers, they will not be shelling out additional cash prior to your start date. The best thing you can do is work your tail off during your first year, positioning yourself well for the first year-end reviews in order to scoop up the heftier of the raises.
UPDATE: Blame the sun.
Apologies for missing the mark on this one, ladies and gents. As I sat in my corner office parents’ basement enjoying a nice Cuban Phillies Blunt cigar, I debated which way to take this piece. Let’s look at the experienced hire route – like many of you have commented, there is definitely wiggle room for SWiSD to negotiate.
There are number of intangibles in play here: where SWiSD is now; what practice line they are in; if the firm they are moving to is an “upgrade” in market position for their practice line. Generally speaking, SWiSD should be receiving a bump in base from their current salary; a conservative estimate would be 4% – 10%. When negotiating for more $$$, SWiSD would be better off asking for a sign-on bonus. HR would prefer to position compensation as a one-time lump rather than have a new hire be significantly above their established staff in salary.
Great feedback everyone. Has anyone recently made the jump from one Big 4’s Advisory line to another firm’s? Tell us below.
Big 4 Senior Associate with ‘Offers in Hand’ Wants to Ask for a Raise Without Sounding Like a Greedy Bastard
Ed. Note: Give DWB a warm welcome back to regular posting. If you’ve got a question for the advice column, email us at [email protected].
Good afternoon, everyone. Caleb must have tripped and knocked his sombrero-wearing-head last night, because he has invited me back for a weekly post. Regardless, I’m excited to be back. Let’s knock the rust off, shall we?
I am a 2nd year senior associate at a Big 4 firm. I like doing public accounting but am thinking that at my level and performance I am underpaid. I’ve several offers in hand but I do like what I am doing.
Now this does seem like a silly question – how do I go about asking for a raise without making it sound like that all I care about is money? In this economy…what are the chances that I am gonna get what I ask for?
Thanks a bunch!
You don’t specify whether your “several offers in hand” are for positions in the private sector or with other public accounting firms, so I’m going to address both.
Private sector – why are you interviewing with companies if you “like doing public accounting?” Turn these down.
Public accounting – you should be considering these offers if they are with another Big 4 firm. Do not go from Big 4 to mid-tier. Don’t have any offers with the other Big 4? See your own comments above and interview with the other firms. All four have problematic staffing issues this spring as the young guns continue to burn out. Sure, you’ll receive a nice little bump in pay when you transfer from one firm to another, but remember you’ll be down at the bottom of the networking food-chain.
Considering both the fact that you work at a Big 4 and it’s only a few months away from mid-summer raises and/or compensation restructuring, asking for a raise now will probably not lead to much. You work for an international firm responsible for more than 100,000 employees…you are one person. Granted, you are a second year Senior, which is one of the areas that all firms have a shortage at.
It also depends on your what practice line, your performance rankings and industry, as all of these factors play into how much leverage you will have. If you’re a top-ranked staff member with your CPA and on track to be a lead senior in the fall, your firm may toss you a $1,500 bone to keep you salivating for summer raises. If you’re more of the middle-of-the-road-and-I’m-studying-for-BEC type it would not totally surprise me if you were not given a raise or even shown the door. It would take the length of an episode of “30 Rock” for the word to spread through your office that all it took to get a bump in pay was to claim you had an offer from another firm. Leadership isn’t stupid.
Regardless of where you stand when compared to your peers, be absolutely certain you’re comfortable taking one of the offers you have should the latter situation happen. Your best bet is to wait until summer raises come through. The other firms will still be hiring experience staff in September.
Are Accountants Willing to Trade Salary for a Four-Day Work Week?
Apparently! Our sister from across the pond has gotten over their Royal Wedding hangover to report that two-thirds of “finance professionals” would take less money if they were allowed to skip one day a week:
It seems that finance professionals are getting a taste for a more balanced lifestyle after the recent spate of bank holiday weekends. According to a recent survey, two-thirds of accountants would be happy to give up some of their salary to enjoy a four-day working week.
A survey of 2,882 finance professionals conducted by recruiter Marks Sattin found that 66% of respondents were more attracted by the prospect of a four-day working week and would be willing to sacrifice up to £11,000 a year [about USD $18k] to achieve a better work-life balance.
Only 6% said they are less attracted to a four day week than this time last year, while just over a quarter of respondents said they felt no differently.
Marks Sattin managing director Dave Way commented, “Appetite for a greater work-life balance is a sure indication that people feel more secure in their jobs. Since the recession, people have had to knuckle down and work harder. But as the economy picks up and there is less pressure on employers to make redundancies, people are increasingly prioritising a work-life balance.
Of course what isn’t mentioned is that even with a four-day work week, a number of people would just end up working longer hours on those four days and would spend a portion of their free day checking email and other various work-related activities. In the Big 4 (and the rest of the top 10-20 firms) however, there are people who are completely satisfied with the status quo and others willing to give their lives for the firm, so there’s little chance that you’ll see a big shift in culture. That said, it’s a question worth putting out there – would you take less money to work four days a week? Tell us below.
(UPDATE) Comp Watch ’11: Things Are Looking Up for KPMG Advisory
~ UPDATE: Email sent to audit professionals added to the end of the post.
How do variable increases “larger than last year for most of you and much larger for many” sound?
With the first half of FY2011 in the books, we want to provide you with an update on the firm’s and Advisory’s performance and share information about our plans for employee compensation.
We are pleased to report that the firm and Advisory are ahead of plan for the first half of the year. Advisory’s revenues have grown 18% compared to last year and our pipeline of opportunities stands at a record $1.5 billion, confirming the marketplace relevance of our services.
We have also successfully added more professionals to our team (over 800 new and e nnovated high value services (including services around cloud and data analytics), acquired a strategic sourcing business (placing us No. 1 in that important piece of the market) and strengthened our training programs (through Advisory University and many targeted programs).This is great news, and a direct result of your contributions!
Further, we are confident that we can finish the year in a very strong position if we continue to work together with a sharp focus on the marketplace, our people, the profitability of our engagements (including expanding the work we offshore to KPMG Global Services), and the timely billing and collection of our receivables.
So what does this mean for compensation? As we have said in the past, our philosophy is that as the business does well, we will share those rewards with our people. And, assuming we stay on plan the remainder of the year, that’s exactly what we plan to do:
Variable Compensation and Salary Increases
Based on our strong results to date, variable compensation will be larger than last year for most of you and much larger for many. Further, we expect that approximately 80% of you will receive a variable compensation award in October. And if you are a client service associate or senior associate, variable compensation is in addition to any awards earned as part of the Above & Beyond program.
Market conditions are dynamic and will vary greatly across our many service disciplines within Advisory. Therefore the range of salary increases will also vary greatly by individual and skill set. We have increased the planned spend for salary increases as well, so increases in base salaries on average will also be better than last year. We know that rewarding and recognizing our people is critical to fostering a high-performance culture, so you can be sure that we will continue to meet our commitment to provide an attractive and competitive total compensation package that differentiates exceptional performers with superior rewards.
Accelerated Compensation Communication
To help provide you with more clarity on what you can expect in the way of compensation come October 1, in July, a leader will meet with you individually to provide you with a line of sight into what you can personally expect to receive regarding salary increase and variable compensation. (As in past years, employees promoted as of July 1, will receive a promotion bonus at that time that will be in addition to any salary increase or variable compensation effective October 1).
And we ask that each of you continue working as a team, providing the best service you can to your clients and colleagues, and helping us to drive outstanding business results. Remember, the better the business does, the better we all do.
Thanks for everything you’re doing to build KPMG’s reputation as the best firm to work with, and to contribute to our success!
Reactions are welcome at this time.
UDPATE: Henry Keizer lays it down for the audit side of the house and while rosy (nearly identical wording as noted in the comments), there’s no specific “larger” or “much larger” language which may be of concern:
With the first half of FY2011 in the books, I want to provide you with an update on the firm’s performance and share information about our plans for employee compensation.
I am pleased to report that the firm is ahead of plan for the year. This is great news, and a direct result of your contributions. And, while there is still a lot more work to do, we are confident that, working together, we can finish the year in a strong position. We have good traction in the marketplace and anticipate that the demand for our services and skills will continue to be strong.
So what does this mean for compensation? As we have said in the past, our philosophy is that as the business does well, we will share those rewards with our people. And, assuming we stay on plan the remainder of the year, this year’s compensation pool will be enhanced compared to last year.
We know that rewarding and recognizing our people is critical to fostering a high-performance culture, so you can be sure that we will continue to meet our commitment to provide an attractive and competitive total compensation package that differentiates exceptional performers with superior rewards.
And we ask that each of you continue working as a team, providing the best service you can to your clients and colleagues, and helping us to drive outstanding business results. Remember, the better the business does, the better we all do.
Thanks for everything you’re doing to build KPMG’s reputation as the best firm to work with, and to contribute to our success.
Tax people – anything to report?
Why Would Fourteen Baker Tilly Partners Give Up Equity for Salary?
This one’s a stumper.
Accountancy Age reports that 14 Baker Tilly partners are giving up their equity stakes to go on salary including “international CEO Geoffrey Barnes, head of IT advisory Richard Spooner, and six partners from the London office.” A spokeswoman told AA that this is simply a change in “remuneration” and the fourteen individuals would remain partners and there “would be no change to client services.”
Riddle me this partners out there: why would a person with an equity stake go back to being a senior manager (i.e. in terms of the compensation structure)? Something doesn’t compute there. Since we’re dealing with the international CEO and head IT advisory, maybe there’s some kind of political or solidarity motive here but the Accountancy Age report is skimpy and its editor Gavin Hinks admits that there isn’t much to go on and gets to speculating:
The big question people are asking is what does it mean? Or does it mean anything at all? There are a number of reasons a partner’s status might change. They may simply no longer want the risk of being partner. The firm may believe profits are too diluted and want fewer partners.
I personally don’t buy the first motive. If they were sick of the risk, why not just leave the firm? There are plenty of jobs out there with better compensation packages. Diluted profits is a little more plausible but the international CEO and head of IT advisory? Why would they opt out? Since the partners in question made this decision themselves, it’s unlikely that this was a punitive measure but perhaps BT had a little bit of an internal email scandal, they were given a multiple choice form of punishment and this was the least severe option? I’ve really got nothing better at this point. People with theories that are slightly above the crackpot level are invited to share.
Can a Future Big 4 Associate Expect a Salary Adjustment When He Starts Work?
Welcome to the aren’t-you-glad-healthcare-reform-is-back-in-the-news? edition of Accounting Career Emergencies. In today’s edition, should an incoming associate expect a salary adjustment on day one or they doomed to a pittance?
Find yourself in a jam at work? Do you have eight hours to spare and aren’t sure how to best spend this rare free time? Wondering what you should get Sharon Allen for a retirement gift? Email us at [email protected] and we’ll make sure you stay away from vacuum cleaners.
Returning to our Big 4 in waiting:
Can I expect to have my salary adjusted to market when I start employment? I will be starting in 2011. Reading through some of the articles and comments on here, it seems that new hires easily start with a salary above $50K. I received three offers from three Big 4 firms but all offered salaries were relatively far from $50K.
Each firm was within 1K-1.5K range from each other though. I know that starting salaries have even decreased in my area overall. I am not enjoying the thought of making less than what these firms have proven to have the potential to offer, or even making less than what another firm had to offer (although I knew that was the outcome by choosing this firm). I personally do not think it is worth asking for a raise or a salary adjustment since I feel that would only hurt my future annual raises. Should I just wait it out and see?
[Doubled over, catching breath, holding up hand with ‘I need a minute’]
Oh, dear. We had to take a break for a second, in fact our face hurts from laughing uncontrollably. Sorry about that.
Look friend, we don’t mean to make light of your question but a reality check is necessary here. There is virtually no chance that your firm will adjust to your salary when you start. You write, “I am not enjoying the thought of making less than what these firms have proven to have the potential to offer, or even making less than what another firm had to offer (although I knew that was the outcome by choosing this firm).”
We find this confusing for a couple of reasons – 1) obviously the Big 4 have “proven to have the potential” to pay more than $50k. It just happens this is occurring in a place where you don’t currently reside. If you did reside in one these places, your starting salary would eclipse the magical $50k. Were you expecting a big city salary for your mid-sized city lifestyle? 2) if you don’t like the idea of earning less money, why did you go with the firm that offered you less money? This simply doesn’t compute.
If making $50,000 is such a sticking point for you, move to a city with a higher cost of living so that you can eclipse the magic number you so desperately desire. If that’s not reasonable, then the best you can hope for is a pleasant surprise like PwC gave its recently hired peeps ($500 bonus for those hired post-June 30, 2010).
This may sound crazy but don’t get too caught up in what your salary is at the beginning of your career. So, to answer your question – sit tight and start your career. It’s a little early to be bitching about being underpaid when you haven’t billed a single hour.
Big 4 Manager Needs Help Determining If He Is Underpaid
Welcome to the squelch-the-tryptophan-withdrawals-with-cyber-Monday edition of Accounting Career Conundrums. In today’s edition, a Big 4 manager is pret-tay sure he is underpaid. How can he broach the subject with a partner without causing major blowback?
Need career advice? Want gift ideas that will score some points with a boss in your life? Wondering where you can find an old PwC backpack? Email us at [email protected] and we’ll sniff out a deal or a homeless person.
Back to our short-changed manager:
I was wondering if you could provide advice in how to determine if I am being underpaid and if I am how to go about asking for an increase? I am a 1st year Manager for a Big 4 firm in Kansas City. I have been with the same firm/office my entire career sans a 2 year secondment I completed in Dublin just in August. In addition, to having my CPA license I also hold the CFE certification and the CFA charter.
My feelings for asking for a raise are based on the additional certifications and knowing that my salary as a 1st year Manager is less than what 3rd year Sr. Associates were making in my office 2 plus years ago. I know the economy has changed during the subsequent 2 years but still feel like I am not fairly compensated. What advice do you propose? I am nervous about sharing my thoughts with my Partner as I am afraid of a potential backlash. Thanks in advance.
Dear Alphabet Soup,
Think you’re underpaid, huh? Seems to be theme around here. However, your situation is more unique than most so we’ll make a run at this.
First thing we noticed about your situation is that you’re a M1 which means you were recently promoted, which also mean you should have just received a better-than average raise. And we’re more than a little skeptical about your assertion that a SA3 is making more than you. That would have to mean that SAs are getting insanely good raises while you – the newly promoted manager – got an abysmal one; it seems unlikely. If this in fact the case, then you’ve had a serious string of bad luck.
As for determining whether or not you are underpaid, we suggest you speak to a professional recruiter in KC to find out whether or not your credentials and international experience or currently undervalued. If the recruiter takes a look at your résumé and starts drooling, you’ll know that he/she can earn a fat commission placing you somewhere else. If they shrug and say, “Look friend, you’re doing pretty well. But let me tell you about this great opportunity…” then your salary is probably fair.
When it comes to talking to a partner about this, be sure you’re speaking to someone you trust and just be honest. Make your case with facts. Don’t go speculating about what a SA3 is making because that turns the conversation to something that is out of your control. Highlight your credentials, international experience and why they bring value to the firm and your partner.
They’ve heard the “I’m underpaid” sob story a million times. You’ve got to prove to them that your case is an exception to the run-of-the-mill bellyaching.
In-Demand Accountant Wants to Know If He Can Ask His Prospective Big 4 Firm for More Money
In today’s edition of “I’d like advice from a bunch of strange accountants,” an experienced accounting associate is interviewing with the Big 4 and wonders if makes sense to waltz in, slam their fist on the table and demand more money.
Need some advice on your next career move? Want some pointers on how to win that coveted item at your local IRS auction? Having trouble with the law and wonder if you should share it with someone your firm? Email us at [email protected] and we’ll get you on the road to sobriety in no time.
Back to our prospective Big 4 associate with dollar signs in their eyes:
I will be going on a job interview with one of the Big 4 firms (currently employed with a large national firm), and they are interviewing for experienced associate/senior associate position. I have experience in an industry their office has a large need for, but not all the candidates to fill it. Even though I am a senior associate at a smaller firm, and may come in as a experienced associate, does it make sense to ask for a pay increase from what I am currently making? I will be relocating to another market, but I would assume the markets are comparable. Just wondering if anyone may have some thoughts on the salary I should be requesting.
Always about the money, isn’t it? Very well, then.
You’re with a large national firm which means you’re near the high end of the accounting salary range already. This doesn’t exactly help your negotiation for a higher salary with a Big 4 firm. To take that a step further, the Big 4 aren’t exactly the negotiating type. The range of salary at the Associate/Senior Associate level isn’t a huge and if you come in at a higher salary than your peers, you’re likely to be on the short-end of merit increases come merit increase time (as this is SOP). Plus, it’s unlikely that your work experience to date will impress the firm you’re interviewing to the extent that they’re A) begging you to join the firm and B) they’ll throw thousands of extra dollars your way (not that it makes that much of a difference).
All right, now that we’ve mercilessly shot you down, you’re ready to hear some good things – if the firm you’re interviewing with really has a need for your experience, it is likely that they are willing to pay you more. If you can demonstrate in your interviews with the partners and managers your knowledge and accomplishments, they will let HR know that want your hot auditing (or whatever) ass ASAP. And that’s the key – what do you offer that the clowns that started with the firm don’t? Run-of-the-mill statements like, “good work ethic, do what it takes” blah blah blah won’t do anything for you. Have you already reviewed other’s work, supervised staff, etc, etc? Differentiate yourself in substantive ways. Make that firm want you for what you bring to the table.
Bottom line: you probably won’t get to “request” your salary, you’ll simply be made an offer. But if you can present your coveted experience in a way that will make your interviewers crave you like Kardashians crave cameras in their faces, coupled with a jump to the higher pay scale of the Big 4, you’re likely to be happy with the salary they offer you.
Big 4 Manager Would Like Staff to Get Some Perspective Re: Raises
Now that compensation season has passed for the major firms and most of the belly aching has died down, we’ll present some thoughts from a friend of GC and a Big 4 senior manager who shared the following with us earlier in the summer.
Hey Caleb,
A few of us were talking today at lunch about compensation and how we like reading how much everyone bitches about what % raise they got and what they feel they should have been entitled too. An A1 thinks they deserve a $10,000 raise, and that would make them happy, c’mon give us a break?
It is easy to understand this is a prime area to feel you have been cheated in, however, we thought it might be interesting for some net dollar co effect, for those complainers who feel they were cheated with their raise %.
Interesting idea, we thought. Our muse suggested the following assumptions: 1) 40% tax rate – federal and state combined 2) 24 annual paychecks.
Our friend/source continues:
Would be interesting to see and shed a different light on a cash pay basis what the real difference is in pay for those who think they got cheated from a 8% raise and only got 6% or something, does the $35 per paycheck really require a personal vendetta or hours of frustrated Facebook status updates? Probably not.
My guess is that on an after-tax, per paycheck basis, some of these raises are equivalent to cutting out the morning Starbucks run, or latest iTunes download.
So we decided to dust off the Excel skills and crunch a few numbers to see if our Senior Manager friend was onto something.
We took a humdrum salary of $70k and applied the 8%, 6% comparison and tabled it:
| Salary | $70,000 | $70,000 | |
|---|---|---|---|
| % Raise | 8% | 6% | |
| $ Raise (Annual) | $5,600 | $4,200 | |
| Taxes withheld | 40% | 40% | |
| Net Raise | $3,360 | $2,520 | |
| 24 | 24 | ||
| Net $/paycheck | $140 | $105 |
BFD you say? You got a 6% raise while some clown who couldn’t audit their way out of a paper bag got 14%? Fine, we’ll take a look at that too:
| Salary | $70,000 | $70,000 |
|---|---|---|
| % Raise | 14% | 6% |
| $ Raise (Annual) | $9,800 | $4,200 |
| Taxes withheld | 40% | 40% |
| Net Raise | $5,880 | $2,520 |
| 24 | 24 | |
| Net $/paycheck | $245 | $105 |
So let’s say you’re the average shmo with the 6% raise and your friend/sworn enemy is getting the 14%. Are you really spitfire pissed that you’re missing out on $280 a month? We’re not talking life-changing sums here. If you’re consistently average over your career, maybe this will add up but hopefully your better sense will grab ahold and you’ll either A) step up your game B) move on with your life C) eliminate the competition (not condoning violence here, just pointing out that it’s a variable in the equation and maybe that it’s an option).
Rebuttal? Agree? Let it rip.