This is our second intern-themed post this week, which gets me thinking that some of you are neck-deep in coffee jockeys. This can be a trying time for those of you that are A) impatient B) dicks C) control freaks D) all of the above. As such, the following has probably crossed your mind at one time or another:
Hi Caleb,
I just wanted to know if you had an opinion on interns at the Big 4? Is hazing an intern such a bad thing? They should be able to handle it, and if they aren't, then maybe they should be looking into a softer (local) accounting firm. Not trying to come off on the wrong foot, but nowadays there are some dumb people in the profession and weeding out the bad ones can help a firm become the best and the greatest. Well, I just wanted to let it out there, so let's open this up for the group to see what kind of responses we get. and if we get some good responses, I will share my knowledge and expertise.
KPEYwCloitte
Dear KPEYwCLoitte,
I'll address three of your statements before releasing the hounds:
1. Do you have an opinion on interns the Big 4? – Yes. They are human equivalent of those god-awful Spotify ads. In other words, annoying to the point that you won't to gouge your eyes out with an unsanded wooden spoon. No, but seriously, I love interns. They're young. They're ambitious. They never get your dinner order wrong (if they do, they can kiss their career good-bye). Yes, they come begging you for work when the best thing you can do is have them stand at the copy machine for hours on end but grunt work is part of the intern code, amiright. Is your memory so short that you don't remember when you showed up tugging on your senior's pant leg every 20 minutes? You can easily solve this problem by asking them to do something worthwhile and not being a self-righteous, know-it-all dick when they don't get it perfect and say, "This is probably a stupid question." If you don't remember a time when you could barely turn on your laptop without burning down the building, then ask one of your superiors. They'll remind you.
2. Is hazing an intern such a bad thing? – No. Hazing of various methods is fine. For me, it would be imperative to know if your intern has a sense of humor and doesn't take him/herself so seriously that they aren't above a little self-deprecating behavior and/or can survive some mild embarrassment. They will encounter far worse things in their careers than a laptop that disappears for 24 hours, fetching dinner for 10 people on a snowy winter night or picking up the partner's dry cleaning. The trick is you have to recognize who can handle the hazing and who cannot. If someone tears off their shirt sleeves or is brought to tears, then you've clearly misjudged this person.
3. [N]owadays there are some dumb people in the profession and weeding out the bad ones can help a firm become the best and the greatest. – "Dumb people" in the profession? GET OUT OF TOWN. I hope you're holding spots for people other than interns. Just look at the people at PwC who still can't figure out email. "Weeding out the bad ones" isn't as simple as picking on them until they develop an eating disorder and/or quit. And even if you do happen to get rid of the less stellar performers, will your firm all of sudden become a team of Tim Tebows? Obviously not. At every level within your firm there are those that can perform and those that can't. Good associates don't always make good seniors; good seniors don't always make good managers, etc. etc. Someone who was a rockstar manager may not be able to hack it as a partner and therefore is "dumb" in the eyes of some observers. I don't think you can avoid this inevitability by making sure you identify the worst sling blade types early on.
If you've got empirical or anecdotal evidence that supports either side of the hazing debate, please share below.
With all the news on raises, promotions etc. etc., a reader got in touch, asking the following:
Can we start a thread to discuss when you need the CPA designation if you want to move up at various firms by practice (audit, tax, specialty groups, etc.) and what exceptions there are?
From what I can derive, PwC was bleeding staff in the early part of the year to the best of my knowledge, requires more time to get promoted up the ranks (3 years to senior compared to 2 at all other firms) and the requirements are higher (must have passed the CPA exam). The higher raises, at least from PwC’s perspective, may be their way of staying competitive with the market because, without higher pay, PwC is not competitive. E&Y may also be attempting to compensate but I am not entirely sure what for.
So three years to earn a promotion to SA at PwC isn’t news to us and some – dare we say, many – may argue that should be the standard timeline for associates in the Big 4/second tier firms. You can debate that all you want but what about the CPA requirement? If PwC does in fact require their associates to have their license before making SA, that’s nothing if not a motivation to finish the CPA ASAP. At the same time, there are many SAs that don’t have their license that do excellent work but for whatever reason are still stalling on obtaining the CPA.
The reader continues by asking:
For instance, if you have an Enrolled Agent, can you still make manager if you’re in tax, etc. [?] I’m also curious about any place that will demote anyone of a certain level who hasn’t gotten their CPA in the last couple of years. KPMG has threatened it for managers in tax who are qualified to sit for the exam (U.S. accounting degree with enough hours), but I wonder if that’s more empty talk.
That’s the first we’ve heard of a demotion for not having a CPA but frankly, that seems appropriate. If the manager has an EA, then perhaps that’s a suitable exception, although the idea of a Big 4 tax manager without a CPA just doesn’t seem right. For many, the lack of the those three precious letters means the end of their careers at the Big 4, so it’s definitely an issue.
So indulge our reader and let us know your firm’s policy regarding promotions and CPA license status. Does it matter? Are there exceptions? Should your performance make up for your uncanny ability to fail FAR? Talk it out.
UPDATE: We obtained a copy of the KPMG policy mentioned above and it appears to be FSF with a few exceptions for those that are “CPA Eligible” and certain “waivers.” Also there’s this, “In circumstances of noncompliance without appropriate waiver, professionals may be subject to disciplinary action, including but not limited to demotion or termination from the firm.”