Category: Big 4

If it happens at a Big 4 accounting firm, we’re talking about it here.

Is This Ernst & Young Auditor the Next Character on Glee?

I don’t watch Glee. Hell, I don’t even have TV. I did flip through the GQ spread with Lea Michelle and Dianna Agron but otherwise, I’m completely unfamiliar with any of the characters on the show. ANYWAY, I hear it’s popular. It’s so popular that regular people want to be characters on the show as overblown versions of themselves and are submitting auditions for a chance to do so. One of these regular people is Nick DeSanto, an auditor at Ernst & Young.

We can’t embed Nick’s audition video from the Glee Project web page but we did find his YouTube channel so we can give you idea of his talent:


More about Nick – he worked for a couple of years at McGladrey before joining E&Y’s FSO Media & Entertainment group, where he’s been for about a year. We spoke to him over email and by phone (he “visit[s] GC almost every day”) and that this audition is his first stab at breaking into showbiz. Can you imagine if he had been involved with the In a JIT project? His singing career would already be on the fast track, winning Tonys and such.

So go over and support him at his Glee Audition page by liking his page if you feel so inclined. And even if you don’t feel the urge, go and like/vote for him anyway. Just because your dreams won’t come true, doesn’t mean you can’t support someone who’s trying to do something to achieve theirs.

Are You a Loser If You Don’t Make Partner at a Big 4 Firm?

Good morning capital market servants. Presumably, none of you were on the Brooklyn Bridge yesterday which also probably means you’ve still got a job, a career to think about, etc. etc.

How’s that going by the way? Are you on the partner track or do you have partner tracks on your back? Haven’t given it much thought lately but hey, this is what you’re doing and sure, making partner seems like a sweet gig, amiright?

Well an interesting statement from the Grumpy Old Accountants today got me to thinking about all of you hoping for a seat at the big table:

In fact, in the Big Four accounting firms today, if you don’t make partner, you often are considered a loser.


Now this little snippet comes out of a much larger discussion about why some many accountants are cheaters (it’s because everyone wants to be perceived as a “winner”). That’s a fine discussion as well, and the GOA post is worth a read, but we’ll focus on the notion that “no parter = loser.”

I certainly had my own partner aspirations for a brief point in time and many of you out there in Big 4 land have them right now. For me, my attitude changed when I observed a few partners, saw what their workload and lives were like and thought, “JESUS H. CHRIST, BEING A PARTNER SUCKS.”

The problem is, if you’re appear to be making a career for yourself at a Big 4 firm (I was quite the nomad which doesn’t really work), what is the ultimate goal? No one says to themselves, “I’d be fine with making Senior Manager in 8-10 years and then spending THE NEXT 30 in that same position.” As such, partner is a goal for many of you. However, we all know that Senior Manager is a parking lot in most service lines, so it may not be 30 years at SM but it’ll sure seem like 30. Having said that, if you like your firm, are reasonably good to FUCKING AWESOME at your job, then why wouldn’t you want to make partner? Not all Big 4 partners are created equal but if you’re on the fast track at PwC, would doing anything less than being admitted to the partnership satisfy your professional ambitions? And if you give up on career goals because…well, just because…does that not make you a L-O-S-E-R?

The answer is no. Personally, I’ve seen plenty of people with partner-level talent, hot on the partner track give it up because 1) something better comes along; 2) They want their life back; 3) SOMETHING BETTER COMES ALONG. In fact, many new partners are working harder than ever (i.e. “like a 2nd Year Senior Associate” has been overheard). Does that sound like a “winner” to you? GOA might have it exactly bassackwards. The last thing most Big 4 alums will tell you is that they feel like losers because they didn’t make partner. Quite the opposite in fact. It’s probably more accurate to say you’re a loser if you think you’ve got a shot at making partner at a Big 4 firm.

UDPATE:
Professor Ketz clarifies below (seen via Twitter) that they the GOAs were talking about the culture within the Big 4 firms rather than you individual losers:

As we said, “… IN THE BIG FOUR ACCOUNTING FIRMS TODAY, if you don’t make partner, you often are considered a loser” (emphasis added). We were discussing the culture of the large accounting firms–we were not discussing our evaluations of those who are not partners. After all, we aren’t partners and we hope we aren’t losers!!

I’ll continue my contrary narrative here and argue that this not the case either. As we know, Big 4 firms sell themselves as great places to start careers but they don’t regularly make the case that this is where you want to spend 15-20 years of your professional life. The culture inside has evolved to accept attrition as part of the formula and that younger professionals are anxious when it comes to getting ahead. In fact, things have changed so much that convincing the talented professionals to stay is part of the culture. Hearing “You’ve got a bright future here,” from a pair of partners over lunch is standard these days because they know the “winners” will leave and the “losers” don’t know when to get out.

Will Years Out of the Game Negate the Big 4 Boomerang Effect?

Ed. note: Have a question for the career advice brain trust? Email us at advice@goingconcern.com.

Here’s an issue I rarely see. I joined PwC management consulting right out of my Ivy League school, and have my undergrad degree in Economics. I loved it, worked hard, made manager in five years and worked for some huge clients. I did all of the extras, methodology writing, promotion committees, coaching, proposals, etc. Managed some huge high profile projects too. Was offered a slot at PwC’s new executive MBA program, and was in the alpha class, graduating with a concentration in Marketing (picked by the firm). But then we had huge post 9/11 layoffs, were spun off and bought by IBM. I left soon after to start a family. I was there nearly ten years.

I went back to school and got my MSAT, and now am halfway through my CPA exam, acing it thanks to my teaching and experience. I’ve been teaching accounting and tax at a major university for the past four years as an adjunct, and doing a little private consulting.

Can I get back in to Big 4? Do I do it as an experienced hire? I know I’ve never been a practicing auditor but I know the methodology and how to manage large engagements. What’s the best way for me to work my way back in? My former colleagues are all at IBM or have left. I am not eligible for on campus since I graduated with my latest masters in 2009.
Thanks!

DISCLAIMER: not every circumstance in the history of circumstances has been taken into consideration when making this statement:

Public accounting – you can always come back.

The flow of people out of public accounting is much more intense and consistent than the experienced hire onboards, but that’s not to say it’s impossible. I did a little searching on LinkedIn and realized that you live in the greater New York City area, which is to your advantage. Many of the Big 4’s support staffs are located in NYC, so there might be options in those areas of the firms if a return to client servicing is not possible. so your odds of finding an opportunity and a new home with one of the Big4 improve slightly. Start with searching their Experienced Hire websites for open opportunities. Links are below:

Deloitte

E&Y

KPMG

PwC

Scour LinkedIn for experienced hire recruiters within each firm and reach out to them directly; have them hear your story. Most importantly, be persistent. The experienced hiring model within the Big 4 is can be touch and go, especially considering the recent uncertainty in the economy.

Deloitte Auditor, Contemplating a Busy Season Walkout, Concerned That Fellow Employees Aren’t as Enthused as He Is

You may have heard a few stories about a little campout going on down on Wall Street the last week or so. It’s been quite a ruckus and now Hizzoner is even getting a little tired of it. Despite the good, the bad and the hippies, all this standing up and shouting and whatnot seems to have inspired one “disenchanted” Deloitte auditor who sent u

I know that I work for my firm in an at will contract, I can quit at anytime and get another job. But I’ve been feeling so slighted for the last several months by leadership’s complete lack of concern for the well being of their workforce that I want to do something more significant. If I quit, some managers will be temporarily upset because my hours will need to be replaced, and they will find someone who doesn’t have the same experience with the client etc. They will get over it in a day, and the giant audit machine will keep turning the same as always, and employees will continue to get the worst of it.

But this is America, we are champions of workers’ rights. Can’t we do a little better than this for ourselves? I understand that with unemployment currently so high this isn’t really a time when workers’ rights are a high priority, but we still deserve better treatment. With Deloitte still swelling based on last weeks’ figures, and loving the attention in the media for being a model of a growing global enterprise their vulnerability becomes clear. They would hate bad press or anything that would stunt growth.

This is why I think an organized but non-unionized strike/walkout, perhaps around, I dunno, the upcoming busy season, would be very effective at getting leadership’s attention. I know I’m no Cesar Chavez, and a white collar walkout it rare thing, as white collar unions are uncommon, and that this is something that would be difficult for generally conservative accounts who are typically anti-union to get done. But I figure, if there is any forum where this sort of movement would/could begin it would be on Going Concern where people are more openly cynical and feel just as disappointed with Deloitte’s version of an audit practice as I do. Not sure who would actually put their careers on the line because I doubt most really believe in the cause, but I think they feel the same sentiment. It would be interesting to hear the true anonymous thoughts of others on this idea, and if there are any brighter ideas on reminding firm leadership whose backs they are standing on to potentially improve the livelihood of those backs. What do you recommend?

Well, Cesar, I do have a few recommendations for your planned walkout. First – take pictures. Lots of them. And then send them to us. Secondly, get a noisy instrument. Preferably a drum or vuvuzela. If you have to do this mission solo like you think you will, you’ll need some help in the noise department. Third – a costume of some sort – I’m thinking Benji Bankes – would advisable and then be sure to incorporate suggestion number one. Fourth – read Adrienne’s post from this summer on why this is an awful idea. The whole thing is worth a read but here’s a taste:

I think part of the reason why anyone you suggest this to might think you’re one tax season away from the funny farm is that CPAs already have a large, powerful trade association which allegedly exists to serve its interests. Granted, the AICPA does more lobbying in Washington than it does to accounting firm partners about easing up on you poor shlubs who have to do all the work, but it’s still a trade association.[…] [T]hough it may not feel like it, most of you are paid pretty fairly compared to, say, McDonald’s cashiers, Starbucks baristas and Walmart greeters. It may not feel fair based on the service you provide (understandably) but in the big picture, making $50,000 a year fresh out of school in middle America ain’t too bad of a gig. You get vacations, safe work conditions, bonuses, insurance and even free CPA review materials if you’re lucky. I bet OSHA has never seen the inside of a Big 4 office to investigate a fatal Excel accident or random intern decapitation at the coffee machine.

Maybe I’m wrong but the leaders of these firms would love – LOVE! – if you wrote them an email about your concerns. If the response you get sounds canned, then there’s nothing wrong with saying so. Your partner may catch some heat (that will eventually blow back on you) but Dr. Phil and JoeE aren’t really doing their jobs if they simply dismiss the widely held concerns of the Green Dot community. If you’re feeling inspired enough to rally some fellow opiners, make some signs and sit on the sidewalk shouting, then by all means do so but do keep in mind that you will end up in these pages, may be permanently confined to a JIT or straight up lose your job. Just some things to mull over.

PwC Won’t Allow an Upset in Vault’s Prestige Rankings

Earlier this week, we learned that Grant Thornton was the new numero uno on Vault’s Accounting 50. The VA50 is determined by a number metrics that are weighted to come up with an overall score as to which firm is the best of the best. According to Vault, Grant Thornton was able to leverage their better work-life balance for employees to overcome their lack of prestige to pull this off.

For many people in the accounting world, however, this is meaningless. Reputation is everything and if you’re not working for one of the firms that are of highest regard, you’re simply a chump. Accordingly, Vault still presents a prestige ranking and while there aren’t many surprises, for many, this is the list. And the top firm on the list? P. Dubs.

1 (1) PwC
2 (3) Deloitte
3 (2) Ernst & Young
4 (4) KPMG
5 (5) Grant Thornton


6 (7) McGladrey
7 (6) BDO
8 (8) Moss Adams
9 (10) J.H. Cohn
10 (9) Plante & Moran
11 (13) Crowe Horwath
12 (12) Clifton Gunderson
13 (11) EisnerAmper
14 (22) LarsonAllen
15 (14) Rothstein Kass
16 (15) BKD
17 (18) Baker Tilly Virchow Krause
18 (16) Reznick Group
19 (21) Dixon Hughes Goodman
20 (19) Cherry Bekaert & Holland
21 (24) Anchin, Block & Anchin
22 (17) WeiserMazars
23 (23) CBIZ/Mayer Hoffman McCann
24 (29) ParenteBeard
25 (28) Wipfli
26 (31) Friedman
27 (27) Marcum
28 (34) Berdon
29 (35) Citrin Cooperman & Co.
30 (36) Eide Bailly
31 (26) UHY Advisors
32 (37) WithumSmith + Brown
33 (32) Elliot Davis
34 (38) Margolin, Winer & Evens
35 (33) Marks Paneth & Shron
36 (40) Blackman Kallick
37 (25) Novogradac & Company
38 (49) RubinBrown
39 (NR) Schonbraun McCann Group
40 (50) Kaufman, Rossin & Co.
41 (NR) Lattimore Black Morgan & Cain
42 (45) Frank Rimerman & Co.
42 (48) Habif, Arogeti & Wynne
43 (NR) Buff Pilger Mayer, Inc.
44 (NR) Horne
45 (NR) Rehmann
46 (NR) Schenck SC
46 (NR) Suby, Von Haden & Associates
46 (NR) Ehrhardt Keefe Steiner & Hottman
47 (41) Aronson & Company
48 (NR) SingerLewak
49 (47) SS&G Financial Services
50 (NR) Katz, Sapper & Miller

Oh! and probably most importantly, the prestige ranking is what we use to seed the brackets for the Coolest Accounting Firm in the spring, so it’s doubly important. Commence bickering.

Deloitte Resents the Notion That They Should Have Known That Taylor, Bean & Whitaker Was a Massive Fraud

As we mentioned briefly, Deloitte has been sued for $7.6 billion by the bankruptcy trustee of Taylor, Bean & Whitaker and Ocala Funding, LLC. If you’ve never heard of Taylor, Bean & Whitaker then check out Jr. Deputy Accountant who’s been all over it since the Feds starting kicking down the doors. Long story short – TBW was a giant fraud perpetrated by its management, Colonial Bank owned a lot of TBW’s mortgages, Colonial failed, Bank of America bought up a bunch of the mortgages, Fannie Mae says they’re owed money, CHRIST, it’s a mess.

Anyhoo, Steven Thomas, who is known for suing the pants of Big 4 firms (and BDO!), is the lead attorney for the plaintiffs and it sounds like the age-old story of auditors BEING COMPLETE IDIOTS:

“Deloitte missed this fraud because it simply accepted management’s conflicting, incomplete and often last-minute explanations of highly-questionable transactions, even though those explanations made no sense and were flatly contradicted by documents in Deloitte’s possession,” one of the lawsuits says.

Of course Deloitte isn’t amused by this, as Deloitte spokesman Jonathan Gandal’s statement attests:

Gandal said the blame for the fraud and losses should rest squarely on Taylor Bean, Ocala Funding and Farkas. “The bizarre notion that his engines of theft are entitled to complain of injury from their own crimes and to sue the outside auditors they lied to defies common sense, not to mention the law,” Gandal said on behalf of Deloitte.

If this statement strikes you as a little confusing, then you’re not alone. First off, when Mr. Gandal is referring to the “the law” he’s probably referring to this. In less legalese, basically what Deloitte is saying is that Lee Farkas and his merry band of crooks are the ones responsible for this shitshow not the Green Dot and therefore, this whole thing is ludicrous. I mean, come on guys, what could a firm that just reported nearly $29 billion in revenue could possibly have done differently? Crooks are just far too smart far auditors. Just ask one.

Silvercorp Metals CEO Reminds Everyone That They’re a ‘Real Company’

As we’ve discussed, Silvercorp Metals hasn’t appreciated the anonymous letters floating around the Series of Tubes accusing the Canadian miner of accounting fraud and has stated that, save their assets in China, “this wouldn’t be happening.” What the company would really like is for these jerks to show themselves and cooperate with investigators. But until that happens, Silvercorp hired KPMG to poke around to calm all the fears out there. According to reports, the House of Klynveld will have a report out soon but in the meantime, Silvercorp CEO Feng Rui will address everyone who thinks that his company is just a bunch of Tonka trucks in a sandbox:

“We’re a real company and will fight against shorters and distorters,” Feng Rui, Silvercorp chief executive officer, said today at a meeting in Beijing.

Furthermore, the auditors in this matter, Ernst & Young, have carried out their duties to a T and if you think some bullshit letters are going to cause them (or Feng & Co.) to do things differently, you’d be wrong:

“Our auditing doesn’t have anything wrong, the allegations are fabrication,” Feng said today in an interview on the sidelines of the meeting.[…] “The allegations won’t prompt us to make any changes in the process of financial reporting and auditing,” he said

Frankly, it’s embarrassing that they even have to address this but you’ve given them no choice.

Silvercorp Says KPMG to Issue Fraud Allegation Report ‘Soon’ [Bloomberg]

PwC Manager, Exploring New Career Opportunities, Accidentally Makes Entire Office Aware of It

When looking for a new job, discretion is important. Discussing your upcoming interview during the morning team meeting is typically frowned upon as well as making remarks like “I’m getting out of this godforsaken dump as soon as possible” within earshot of superiors. Another no-no? Not catching the “PwC [Your office] All” in the CC line of your response to a professional recruiter:

Caleb,

Woke up this morning only to find out that someone decided to look for new opportunities. Only problem is that on his reply he copied the entire office of 1900 people. Perhaps a lesson learned for all those auditors looking for a new job.


We’ve presented this in chronological order, so no need to start from the bottom and we’ve redacted the names to protect the innocent and those not too good with the email. As you can see, things get off to a pretty warm start:

[Anxious Recruiter],

I am very interested! How do we follow up on this?

[Anxious-to-get-the-hell-out PwC Manager]

The recruiter, sensing a live one, is on it:

I am submitting your new resume today. When can we talk [Anxious PwC Manager]?

The PwC Manager, sensing a little-too-eager beaver, starts balking:

[Anxious Recruiter],

I am committed all weekend, and will be unable to discuss until sometime on Monday. I hope that’s okay,

[PwC Manager]

Anxious Recruiter, being the early-bird-gets-the-worm type, plays it cool and suggests that they still get things rolling first thing Monday:

Not a problem [obviously less interested PwC Guy]. Can we set a time to talk on Monday? I get in to the office at 745am. I also have a meeting at 10am. I have 2 positions that are remote to discuss. I have already shared your resume with the client and they are interested.

Thanks!!

Sunday afternoon comes with no word from formerly excited PwC Manager and our recruiter starts panicking:

[PwC Manager],

Can we set up a time to talk tomorrow please? It is important!

Thanks!

It’s finally gotten to the point where the PwC Manager has to say, “Look pal, you’re freaking me out. Don’t call me, I’ll call you.”

[Anxious Recruiter who is coming on way too strong at this point],

I am currently traveling and will not reach my destination until after 10:30AM. Let me know what time will work for you after that, and I will try and make myself available.

Thanks,
[PwC Manager]

I know email is tricky but be extra careful with the more sensitive ones, mmmkay?

Deloitte’s Recent Promotion Awards Fail to Impress One New Senior Associate

A “New Senior” passed along this little tip this morning:

Over the last couple of weeks Deloitte has been sending out Promotion “Awards.” I find it funny they think two years of service is worth only a $100 applause award. Honestly getting only $100 is more insulting than getting nothing at all.


On a day where Barry Salzberg is doing a happy dance in the hallways, our friend must have felt compelled to share the news of generosity. If you’re a recipient of a crisp new hundo, share your story in the comments and email us with any other cheery tidbits on the first day of autumn.

What’s Your Motivation for Leaving a Mid-tier Accounting Firm for a Job with Big 4?

Contributor note: if you have a question for the Going Concern audience at large (including the useless dbags) or our team of accounting drop outs and degenerates, please get in touch.

Here’s a tip if you guys are thinking about submitting a question: it helps to know your motivation if you are asking for our advice. It’s difficult to tell you what you should do without knowing why you’re trying to do it, unless you’re asking us an obvious question like “should I take X position to make way more money?” because in that situation we obviously assume you’re in it for the money. There’s nothing wrong with that.

That said, this indentured servSo let’s commence to helping.

I’m currently working for a large mid-size firm as a Staff II and will become a Senior I next year on a relatively large public client. However, I’ve been debating whether or not I should follow up on opportunities to work at a Big 4 firm if it means I have to wait an additional 2 years to become a Senior I?

I know from my friends currently working in the Big 4 firm that new hires work for 3 years at the staff level before being promoted to Senior I. In addition, I may also slip one level from Staff II back to Staff I when I change firms. I’d essentially be 2 years behind my peers as a result of going to the Big 4 so I don’t know if making this switch would help or hurt my career. Is it really worth losing that much time in order to get the Big 4 name on my resume? Should I wait until next year in hopes that I could be recruited as a Staff III instead?

Surely I’m not the only one struggling with this decision, does anyone else have experience with this problem?

Thanks and Best Regards,
-Staff II(?) Auditor

Well, Would-Be Staff II, as you are probably already aware, the Big 4 item on your résumé is going to blow any of that mid-tier nonsense you’ve got going now out of the water (don’t get butthurt, mid-tier-ers. It’s not personal). The actual practical application of what you’re learning at a mid-tier firm versus what you might learn at the Big 4 is irrelevant here; it’s all about marketing yourself, and you’re better equipped to do that with bragging rights slapped all over your work experience. You’re pretty much only going to get those rights from the Big 4.

That isn’t to say you can’t gain valuable experience from your current employer, so it comes down to what you want to do career-wise and in what time frame you would like to accomplish it. Have you passed the CPA exam already? Are you itching to get out of public altogether? It’s pretty hard to try and push you in the right direction without knowing what that direction is. What do you want out of your career? Money? Prestige? Experience?

Why did you start mid-tier in the first place? Are you happy where you are? Do you enjoy the work and feel fulfilled? What is it you think Big 4 can offer that you aren’t getting at your current firm?

If I were you, I would wait it out, gain additional experience, keep those Big 4 contacts and try to make the jump when you have a little more leverage. The more secure you get in your skill set, the better equipped you’ll be to leverage that experience into a more ideal gig with a Big 4 instead of starting at bottom a level above the clueless interns.

I would also have a candid conversation with whomever you’ve been speaking to at the Big 4 about your concerns. Don’t come off as a money-grubbing, work-averse dick but definitely express an interest in being involved with work on par with what you’ve been doing with your firm, not taking a step back. Feel free to embellish whatever paperwork you’ve been assembling up until this point into a full-blown PCAOB-compliant masterpiece.

I’m sure any number of mid-tier grunts who read this site religiously can talk you out of making the jump, and for good reason, while others will tell you to jump now and worry about how quick you ascend the Big 4 ladder later. A smaller firm allows you a better chance at truly learning your trade instead of simply going through the motions and checking boxes; think of mid-tier as stripping at the pole as opposed to mopping up the floors. You probably won’t put stripping at the pole on your resume but you’ll be gaining practical experience you can segue into a better opportunity.

I’m not clear on the opportunity you’re after here. Can you clarify?

Happy 100th Birthday PwC Los Angeles!

Things sure have changed quite a bit since 1911 when it was just Price Waterhouse (what do we think the logo looked like?) and no one gave a shit whether working moms had a great place to work. Possibly in an effort to make up for those less diverse-sensitive years, the firm is celebrating their century in L.A. with “100 Years of Service, 100 Ways of Giving Back.”


P. Dubbersteins will spend a few hours sitting in god-awful traffic on their way to two dozen community organizations to do various nice things. And in case you feel compelled to share your story, the firm will let you do that too.

PwC has also built an intranet site with the theme, “What’s your LA story?” to generate excitement and internal buzz about the anniversary. It provides a centralized resource of information about the campaign and serves as another vehicle for the firm’s LA partners and staff to review and sign up for projects. A unique feature of the site is a page allowing people to share personal stories of how they have helped in the community, fostering a feeling of shared commitment and inspiring others to participate.

Sharing stories about how you’ve made a difference in your community is cool and all but I’m sure many current and former PwC L.A. employees have tales from the last 100 years that are just as interesting but fall within a different narrative. Maybe there was a partner at the Oscars who somehow ended up in the arms of Sophia Loren or maybe he got bombed with Jack Nicholson at the Vanity Fair party only to be found later, naked and passed out on the side of Mulholland Drive.

Or maybe you just recall some inter-office exploits that were especially memorable. The point is, PwC L.A., this is a time for reflection. So if you got memories (fond or not so much) about your time there, feel free to share them below.