Tag: Public Accounting

FERF Survey: Audit Fees Down, Big 4 Still Dominate Public Company Filers

This story is republished from CFOZone, where you’ll find news, analysis and professional networking tools for finance executives.

It looks like audit fees are stabilizing.

The 150 publicly-held companies responding to a recent survey paid an average of $4.8 million in audit fees in 2009, down 2.4 percent from the total shelled out by these respondents the prior fiscal year.

The 197 privately-held companies responding to the survey paid an average of $291,200, roughly even with the prior year.

Drilling further down, the survey found that total audit fees for 83 large accelerated filers-those with market capitalizations over $700 million–averaged $7.8 million, 3.6 percent less than what they paid the prior year. What’s more, this average of $7.8 million was possibly skewed to the high side this year due to the total audit fees reported by the 19 respondents from companies with more than $25 billion in annual revenues.


On the other hand, the average audit fees paid by the 22 non-accelerated filers were $579,900, 3.3 percent more than what they paid in the prior year.

These are some of the highlights of a newly-released annual report from Financial Executives Research Foundation (FERF), the research affiliate of Financial Executives International. It stresses that the averages reported in this year’s Audit Fee Survey are not comparable to those reported in the 2009 survey because this year’s respondents are not necessarily the same as last year’s respondents. In fact, FEI stresses that this year’s average was skewed slightly higher due to representation from more companies with revenues of $25 billion or more.

The survey also found that the total number of audit hours averaged 21,458 for all public companies, and-not surprisingly–was directly proportional to both the size of the company and to the number of legal entities comprising the company. Of the 19 respondents from companies with more than $25 billion in annual revenues, the total hours averaged 108,571.

The average hourly audit rate was $218 for all public companies–$186 for nonaccelerated filers and $220 for the large accelerated filers. Surprisingly, the survey found that the lowest hourly rate ($110) and the highest hourly rate ($400) were both reported by large accelerated filers. It said the $110 rate was reported by a large multi-national consumer goods distributor and the $400 rate was reported by a large multi-national financial services firm.

Other interesting findings:

• 88 percent of public company respondents used Big 4 audit firms compared to 36 percent of private companies.

• After the Big 4, Grant Thornton was mentioned by four respondents and BDO and McGladrey were both mentioned once.

• 21 of the 197 private companies plan to switch auditors, compared to only 7 of the 150 public company respondents. Service issues and fees were key reasons for both groups.

• Just 16 of the 150 public companies indicated that their auditors broke out the cost of the Section 404 attestation.

Big 4 Rotations: Great Career Opportunity or Recruiting Gimmick?

We touched on international rotations yesterday, albeit one that probably would be provide more risk than most accountants are comfortable taking.

That being said, rotations – either to another practice, office or international – can be a way to re-energize your career if you’re feeling stagnant or a simple distraction from the distinct possibility that you don’t like your job. We’ll discuss all three of these possibilities and then open it up for discussion:

International Rotations – Offering international rotations is an excellent recruiting tools for the firms that offer them (primarily Big 4) and most people that work in firms that offer them would state that they are “an extremely rewarding experience,” whether or not they’ve actually experienced one. It’s one of the cliché message that firms put out without mentioning the fact that the politics of negotiating one can be tricky. All that being said, those lucky few that do experience them rave about their experiences (for the most part, there are some that just can’t be pleased) on both a personal and professional level.


Domestic Rotations – Again, firms market these as opportunities for those that are interested in them. There are less politics involved in the domestic versions although a particular office may have to demonstrate a need before it would be approved. A slight twist on these the domestic “rotation” is an unsolicited one, where one office has a desperate need for warm bodies and your firm offers you up to spend a significant length of time (e.g. two to three months up to a year or more) working in a different office.

Practice Rotations – You’re sick of auditing/tax/advisory. One day the idea of a rotation to a new service line or to a support department (e.g. HR) comes along and you jump at it because, well, you’re bored out of your mind. This can be a great opportunity to do something completely different which could be the start of a new career path. Or it could be your firm filling its need for grunts in a practice that is short-handed.

From a recent thread on staying or leaving public accounting, commenter Guest had this to say regarding internal rotations.

Internal rotations are also BS. They are generally looking for cheap labor to bridge them in times of need. Most people don’t get asked to stay on, in which case your peers that stayed in audit may have a leg up. If you do get asked to stay, you will be behind your advisory/tax peers since you didn’t start with them.

So it’s a bit of a mixed bag out there. On the one hand, landing one of these rotations is the first step and then you have to consider the repercussions of leaving an office/practice for a length of time. If you’ve got personal experience with any of these, discuss below for the wishers and dreamers out there mulling rotations.

Dog Days: How Are Accounting Firms Helping You Enjoy Summer?

A fellow Big 4 expat once told us that Tuesday was the worst day of the week. The logic was essentially that Tuesday was no man’s land – you weren’t catching up on your weekend with your co-workers like on a Monday, Friday is an eternity away and plus Tuesday has no feel.

And since the summer months tend to be slower, the days can drag.

With that in mind, a current Big 4 soldier wanted to find out what firms were doing to help pass some of the hours either through internal initiatives or on individual teams. She was kind enough to share with us her team’s Friday ritual:

Every Friday we head out early to get manicures. Just wanted to know how/if other teams or firms were letting people blow off some steam this summer.

For the gents that aren’t so in touch with their delicate sensibilities, this probably sounds awful. Regardless, it beats the hell out of being the office, yeah? And spending over half of your day on Deloitte’s Fantasy Football doesn’t qualify as a substitute.

You may remember that KPMG is letting the troops don their best denim – baggy, skinny, nut huggers – whatever and they also shipped out some sweet flesh that Klynveldians may have burned on over Memorial Day.

So whether your summer consists of extra-casual dress, afternoons at the $5.99 buffet strip club or double-duty on your office’s landscaping, discuss how your firm is helping you enjoy (or not) months 6 through 8.

Big 4 Refugees: Where Are They Now? Are They Still Miserable?

Unless you’re completely illiterate, you’re aware that we cover lots of news on layoffs and exoduses here at GC. Layoffs seem to be more of ’08-’09 trend while this year the exodus seems to be en vogue.

That being the case, some of the people that you knew while they were in public accounting have completely disappeared never to heard from again. Those of you still at the mercy of the billable hour might assume that these refugees are loving life in their new jobs – working 40 hours a week, making far more money and seeing more than an hour or two of sunlight on a regular basis.

But do these ex-Big 4 and public accountants really have it better? One reader wonders aloud:

Something came to mind recently when talking to my ex-Big 4 friends, who were laid off in the mass curling about a year ago. Being someone who was laid off by a Big 4, I somewhat have to agree and feel the same way. That is, I have heard from so many of these friends who hate their current jobs, and considering quitting. Even more are thinking about going back to school. So I wasn’t sure if this only applied to my friends, or is a general trend among those laid-off from Big 4s.

So I thought it would be interesting in the thought of other people who were laid off by the Big 4s. Where are they now? Do they like their jobs? Or do they feel the same way? If they don’t like their current jobs, what are their intentions? And maybe even the question of whether they would consider going back to a Big 4?

Lots of questions in there, so it’s really a grab bag. Jump in on whatever applies to you – headed back a life or Ramen and frozen pizza to get at Masters or PhD? Still glad you escaped public accounting with your sanity intact? Thinking of – gasp – going back?

Firms are definitely looking for help as evidenced by the pleas by PwC and Ernst & Young to their current employees to refer everyone and their dog for possible employment, so hey, it’s an option for those that feel that the non-Big 4 grass is faux-green. Discuss.

Three Things Public Accounting Can Learn From the World Cup

World Cup fever is sweeping the world, if not your office. Sure it’s not March Madness and a much needed relief from busy season but it is the world’s biggest athletic event. And regardless of whether you are wearing your country’s colors to the office or still confused as to what FIFA even stands for, your friendly employer should be paying attention; there’s plenty to learn from these games.


Loud noise is a powerful distraction – It’s rumored that Human Resources departments around the country are placing obscene orders for vuvuzelas, the long plastic horns that are causing a stir at the opening round games (and being banned at practically all future sporting events). Their hopes are for all Big 4 partners to use them when year 2010 bonuses and raises are announced. The news is expected to be rather bleak and disappointing, but the hope is that the horns make everything seem so much more FUN!

Seriously though – those horns sound like a swarm of drunk, football loving bees.

Timing is everything – The worst part about the World Cup games for football fans in America has been the timing of games. The first round games have been beginning at 7:30 am on the east coast and a bright 4:30 am in sunny California. Satyam hopes no one is watching their recent restatement troubles, much like West Coasters likely snoozed through Argentina/South Korea this morning.

Moral victories are still acceptable – In fact – if you spin things well enough – a moral victory is a real victory. (See Example A here) So what moral victories have we had recently?

E&Y is hiring…sorta. We still don’t know what that’s all about.

KPMG is making the suburbia-to-city commute just a thing of the past. How nice of them!

PwC raises might be decent after all. Or at least less awful than EY’s.

Deloitte made impacting the community a requirement.

McGladrey is on fire. Everybody out!

Hmm. Suddenly that 1-1 tie with the Brits doesn’t seem so mediocre, does it?

So Your Firm Is Going to Pay For You to Take the CPA Exam: Four Things To Remember

Have a question on the CPA Exam? What section is easiest? How should I study for Regulation? Are pants mandatory at the testing site? Shoot us an email with your query.

Not only do you have a job (congrats!) but you have a job that is willing to pay for you to take the CPA exam. Awesome! But before you load up on review materials, be sure you know what your employer expects and understand that there are situations where you can be held liable for materials if you don’t live up to your employer’s expectations.


This is Business – First of all, though you can’t claim a deduction, reimbursement of your CPA exam expenses (education, exam fees, etc) is treated as a business expense, just like any other training. If you’re desperate to get someone to help out with review course or exam fees, try selling this point to your employer.

Make the Most of Time You Have Now – If you’re in the Big 4 or anywhere down to the middle, chances are your review course fees are covered and your performance on the exam might be rewarded with a bonus. Don’t blow this! It’s easier for you to study and pass exams before you are loaded down with responsibilities and managers are much more lenient with first years looking for time off than they are if you’re in your 4th consecutive year of failing FAR. Take this seriously and realize that your firm will probably only pay once; blow it and you’re going to have to come up with retake fees on your own.

This Isn’t 2006 – Several years ago, firms would happily pay $3,000 and up for overpriced review courses with all the bells and whistles but since belts have been tightened, some are reluctant to cough up a chunk of cash without a guaranteed return on their investment. Look at this subsidy not as a gift but as additional income. Would you blow $3,000 of your own income on something and then never use it?

Ask Your Firms Lots of Questions – If your firm does not already have an agreement with a review course but is willing to pay your fees, ask lots of questions upfront and find out if you can invoice for repeats or supplemental products if you need them. One of the larger firms has a “we’ll pay for anything once” rule meaning they will only cut one check, regardless of whether it’s for $2 or $2,000. Other firms have strict rules about what you can order and when you can start (think government agencies). Regardless of how your firm works, ask about what is covered and what is expected in return.

In this economy, you can’t afford to blow a free review course and discounted or all-expense-paid trips to Prometric.

Adrienne Gonzalez is the founder of Jr. Deputy Accountant, a former CPA wrangler and a Going Concern contributor . You can see more of her posts here and all posts on the CPA Exam here.

Staying or Going: What’s the Best Work Experience for Accountants?

Happy MOANday, everyone. If you missed Friday’s post because you were enjoying summer hours, be sure to get caught up on things before anything else.

I left of Friday’s post leaving up to you, the readers, to discuss which person would be better qualified for the situation. I did my best in laying out assumptions for the hypothetical, and many of you responded with wonderful feedback.

Here’s a taste:


From SouthernCPA:

Just for fun, let’s tweak the assumptions a smidge. Same 4 years of public experience, except the job offer has a 30% bump in total comp. Also, the person in the position before you was essentially like you (i.e. 4 years of experience, even came from the same firm as you) and they got promoted within 2 years with a 15% increase in pay. The hours are better (average 45-50 hours a week rather than 60 or so with more consistency), but the new job is less flexible (i.e. less vacation). Would you jump ship?

DWB: SouthernCPA brought up an important aspect that I overlooked – non-financial perks like benefits and – in this case – vacation days. Public accounting firms are generous with vacation days because they know many of you will have stretches of non-chargeability. Private industry average two to four weeks. But like in Southern’s case, a 30% bump in salary more than offset the vacation day situation. And remember what I mentioned above – benefits. Find me a hedge fund that doesn’t completely pay for or greatly subsidize health benefits and I’ll take you to lunch (no, really). This is savings that offers both more money in your wallet and peace of mind.

From Guest:

I would also agree with Southern CPA to the extent that it depends on the experience gained in industry vs public accounting as well as the bump experienced by leaving at a senior vs a manager level. However, there are also other factors that should be considered as well such as the ability to find a job at different levels (senior vs manager). While few talk about it within the big 4, I have personally watched over-specialization as well as too much public experience become an issue when searching for jobs, particularly for individuals at a manager/senior manager level.

DWB: This is the precise situation I wanted to hit home. Sorry, Jeff. Tanya is by far the more qualified candidate. And here’s why:

• Tanya has an ideal mix of public and private experience – assuming the private role is not a demotion – she can hit the ground running at the next level. She understands her respective industry from both the public and private side. She can come on board at the next role (most likely a promotion) with an easier transition than Jeff.

• Jeff spent two years managing – budgets, staff, expectations. Very little of this matters. One could argue that senior staff members are the real managers of engagement teams anyway, as they are forced to handle the demands of staff, partners, and managers. The longer you’re a manager, the longer you’re away from the nitty gritty hands-on work.

• Audit is reviewing other people’s work. Tanya has two years of doing.

• Tanya will require a slightly higher salary, but oftentimes the private/public mix of experience is worth the cost. The more technical the role, the more private experience that will be required.

Please, leave your comments below. Let’s hug talk it out.

Is Staying in Public Accounting Until Making Manager Worth It?

You should stay until you at least make manager.

How many times have you heard those words? Whether in a partner’s office or at the bottom of a happy hour drink, it also seems as though your best interests are being put first. But really, is that the case?

Before the comments state “every market is different, how dare you make a generalization,” guess what? I’m going to generalize. Sorry, but unless a 2nd year senior in St. Louis emails me with market data, I have no data to base an opinion on. I write about what I know, and what I know is financial services. Kapeesh?


(Send me info…please).

Let’s compare the career paths of two auditors, Jeff and Tanya. Both started at the same time and are now 2nd year senior associates, entering into that dark year before potential promotion to manager (notwithstanding personal performance or economic indicators, of course).

Both had “the talk” with leadership about their respective careers and receive the you should stay to make manager conversation. Jeff decides to stay and put in at least another year to receive the promotion, but Tanya decides to enter into the private industry. Fast forward a few years:

Tanya, 2006 college graduate, CPA

Fall 2010: Four years of public accounting experience

Fall 2010: Lands job in private industry

Fall 2011: In private industry

Fall 2012: Still in private industry, wants a new job

Jeff, 2006 college graduate, CPA

Fall 2010: Four years of public accounting experience

Fall 2010: Stays in public accounting

Fall 2011: Stays in public accounting, promoted to manager

Fall 2012: Still in public accounting, wants a new job

Make the following assumptions:

• Tanya received a market-rate bump in pay when she left public (10-15%).
• Tanya stayed in the “typical” career path with someone with her experience (i.e. she didn’t leave financial services audit to work for Teach for America).
• Tanya did not receive a promotion while in private (although possible).
• Jeff stayed for a year after making be promoted because he bought into the “you need to stay one year after making manager” mantra.

Now, who do you think is the more attractive candidate for a job in private for someone with six years of financial services experience? Discuss below. My opinion and follow up will kick off Monday’s blog post.

If you’re reading this from the (un)comfort of your desk, please let me know why in the world you’re not doing one of the following:

a. Drinking with interns
b. Drinking with strangers at a crowded World Cup bar
c. Instituting your own summer hours and – yup, you guessed it – drinking

Cheers to your weekend and the World Cup team of your choice.

Public Accounting Casting Call – Summer Intern Edition!

Summer interns are en route to an office near you; either already on board or on their way this week, sporting their early summer tans. Just in time for the work load to shrivel up to next to nothing and summer hours to be instituted – gotta love the timing! But nonetheless summer intern season is a wonderful time of year, and I want to make sure GC helps celebrate the summer.

Today’s post is a cry for help on two different levels (has my job really come to the point of groveling?). Here’s the scoop:


Summer Interns

What’s the concept?: The main drive behind this blog is to provide insider information on the public accounting industry to those who work in the trenches every day. What better way to do that than by listening to you, the summer intern? Your senior manager might ignore you all summer, but we won’t.

What we’re looking for: Summer interns at public accounting firms (Big 4, mid-size, anyone is welcome) to contribute short, bi-weekly write-ups about your summer experiences. We’re not looking for firm bashing information or juicy details about co-ed hookups but hey, if you have dirt, we’re always here to listen. Write-ups should touch on your experiences, both firm related on your respective engagement teams.

How to get involved: Email me here and include the following information:
Name:
Firm and Location:
Dates of internship:
Best email to contact you on:
*See my note below about confidentiality

Advice for Summer Interns

What’s the concept?: I’m in the process of putting together a “guide” for summer interns. What do they need to know before starting at your firm? What industries should they avoid or gravitate towards? How should they handle being snagged into a drunken conversation with a partner about his three kids and pending soccer tournament? Most of you here have not only worked with/ hated on interns before, but you were one at one point in your career as well.

What we’re looking for: Share your advice or your stories of interns past. The dirt. Everything. From serious career advice to informal tongue-in-cheek statements, nothing is off limits.

How to get involved: Email me feedback and include your firm’s name and office location. Feel free to leave stories below in the comments.

*Please note: As a member of the public accounting industry myself I understand the importance of confidentiality when it comes to something like this project, and I understand the concern that I might release names either publicly or to the respective firms. Simply put, I will never do such a thing. The success of this website rises and falls with the trust of our readers. No one would ever take action to hurt our relationship with you, the readers. Please have faith in us as I ask for your participation. Any feedback or comments are assumed to be private.

That said, I look forward to your feedback. Cheers and Happy Moanday.

The Big 4 vs. Private Sector – Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda?

Happy MoanDay Tuesday, everyone.

Last week’s post about Big 4 firms lowering the bar on starting salaries in order to project artificial pay raises was well discussed in the comments section. Thank you to everyone who commented, as that’s what makes this online community vocally vibrant and a joy to be a part of.

Part of the conversation included a debate about whether it is better to begin a career in accounting with a Big 4 firm or in the private sector; two very different career paths. The question is a legitimate case of shoulda coulda woulda. The following are a few comments from the peanut gallery:


• Guest said, “Even though I was offered $55k + $5k bonus out of college for a Big 4, I was VERY close to not accepting the offer and instead going with a private firm that was $60k starting and normal hours. The only reason I went to the Big 4 was because I fell for the trap of ‘the name recognition.’ If I could go back in time, I would have chosen the private firm.”

• Another Guest crunched the numbers, “In a Big 4, you’re overworked about 20-25% more than the private sector (if not, then more). Say a Big 4 offers you $55k starting. Your “REAL” salary relative to your peers would in fact be $55,000 / 1.25 = $44k. If you lower it to $50k for a first year, that equates to a real salary of $40k.”

• Finally, 2nd Year Associate chimed in with, “Plenty of my college pals are making upwards of $10k more than I am a year and they don’t even have their CPAs. I joined public accounting to get ahead over the next 5 to 10 years but if my pay was any less I’d have skipped this route completely.”

I think it all depends on where your career is at. If you graduated in 2007 or 2008, you might be less thrilled to be on the public accounting career. The double digit percentage raises for everyone on the team that were fiercely promoted by the Big 4 campus recruiting machines have yet to materialize for you, and now you find yourself lumped into the “just happy to have a job” group. Your classmates that went the private route have been cruising on decent pay and 45 hour work weeks. Nothing good to see here; move along.

If you’re 4-8 years into your career, you’re obviously in a different place. You’ve experienced the 15% raise, climbed the corporate shuffleboard to senior staff or manager, and utilize the phrase, “when I first started here…” all too often. You’ve earned your stripes after a number of busy seasons; your desire for a new job is to be better respected by your superiors. Pay isn’t everything, but it’s important.

Throughout all of this, you’ve benefited from the resources of working at a large firm (no, I’m not talking about free dinners). The training programs have been extensive, your CPA license is paid for, and you’ve been enjoying as much of your five weeks of vacation as the firm allowed you to take. And what about having the name on your resume? Having a pedigree firm on your resume can oftentimes land you the interview; earning the pay day is up to you.

So why did you enter into public accounting? Was it because the Big 4 had a strong presence on your campus? Were private companies not offering enough? Would you change anything about your career path to this point? Leave your thoughts below.

Three Things You Need to Remember Now That You’re Promoted

Weekends worked: check. CPA passed: (hopefully) check. Blood, sweat, and tears: check, check, annnnd check.

Congratulations! Your hard work has paid off – you’re a newly crowned senior associate or manager. The question is, though: are you ready?


Both promotions<into unpopular clubs. After all, it’s no secret that senior staff members are in a very difficult position. There are budgets to learn, manage, and finagle. Speaking of managing, there’s the staff below and the managers and partners above. Senior staff members may be at the crossroads of the team, but new managers are now forced to the bottom rung of the upper ladder. The track to partner is narrowing down to the final few years; if you thought things were political before being manager, you need to wake up and smell the shifty maneuvering. Here are some tips to help with your newly acquired responsibility: 1. Remember where you came from – This is very much one of those “easier said than done” situations:

Seniors: Chances are you were once a clueless intern, hungry to learn about the fascinating world of public accounting. Sure, interns are overpaid and carry a sense of entitlement – but do you remember what it was like to earn that first intern paycheck?! You bought drinks for all of your Marketing major friends the following semester. And come on – you were definitely a first year, balancing life in a new town, your first “real” job, and moody bosses as old as your parents.

Managers: Simply put, you worked for some awful managers in your day. Remember the nightmares and learn from them. Don’t. Be. One. Of. Those. Managers. Respect your staff; value your senior-in-charge. They keep the wheels turning, after all.

The point I’m trying to hit home is that it is important to remember what your subordinates are going through. This will help you better manage their expectations and mold them into a reliable and loyal workforce. Organize a happy hour or weekday evening event and learn about their interests outside of work. The more you know, the better you can manage expectations, the more your staff will respect you, and the easier your job of handholding will be.

2. Build off your mentor’s lessons – We all have mentors that we look up to. Make an effort to realize what it is about their mentorship that you admire. Embrace those traits, make them your own, and build off of them. Constant improvement should be a daily challenge; a challenge that you accept head on. Seek out feedback from your mentees and staff members. Constant improvement – make it your purpose.

3. This is what you signed up for – There’s not getting around the fact that you’re stepping into a more demanding role in the firm:

Seniors: Managers will expect you to stretch a dime of budget time into a twenty dollar bill. Clients will be up your back and first years will want to know where the bathroom is located. Fact of the matter is this role will really test your personal ambitions of a career in public accounting. But that’s the point, right?

Managers: You’ve reached a very critical plateau in the firm’s hierarchy. Question leadership and thought processes. Get involved with your firm’s committees and organizations. But above all else, set an example for your staff members to respect. People work harder for those that they respect. Earn your staff’s respect.

Daniel Braddock is a former Big 4 human resources professional and auditor. You can read more of his posts for Going Concern here.