While the AICPA and large accounting firms have begged urged the SEC not to approve the PCAOB Firm and Engagement Metrics rule (PCAOB-2024-06) approved by the PCAOB on November 21, 2024, at least one person would like to see the added transparency this rule could provide and he’ll explain why in a comment letter we’ll discuss below. As a refresher, this rule requires reporting of metrics at both the firm and the engagement levels.
Those metrics are (text taken directly from the PCAOB):
- Partner and Manager Involvement. Hours worked by senior professionals relative to more junior staff across the firm’s large accelerated and accelerated filer engagements and on the specific engagement.
- Workload. For senior professionals who incurred hours on large accelerated or accelerated filer engagements, average weekly hours worked on a quarterly basis, including time attributable to all engagements, administrative tasks, training, and all other matters.
- Training Hours for Audit Personnel. Average annual training hours for partners, managers, and staff of the firm, combined, across the firm and on the engagement.
- Experience of Audit Personnel. Average number of years worked at a public accounting firm (whether or not PCAOB-registered) by senior professionals across the firm and on the engagement.
- Industry Experience. Average years of career experience of senior professionals in key industries audited by the firm at the firm level and the audited company’s primary industry at the engagement level.
- Retention of Audit Personnel (firm-level only). Continuity of senior professionals (through departures, reassignments, etc.) across the firm.
- Allocation of Audit Hours. Percentage of hours incurred prior to and following an issuer’s year-end across the firm’s large accelerated and accelerated filer engagements and on the specific engagement.
- Restatement History (firm-level only). Restatements of financial statements and management reports on internal control over financial reporting (“ICFR”) that were audited by the firm over the past three years.
The PCAOB believes tracking these metrics “will not be overly costly, time-consuming, or burdensome” as most firms are already tracking some or most of these metrics internally; firms say “nah fam.”
To be clear, I have made my contempt for the PCAOB well known on this website over the past 16 years (contempt might be too strong a word). In my view, and in that of many others, they’ve pointlessly pushed paper around for the 20+ years they’ve been around. Worse, in recent years they’ve gotten petty in a way that leads me to believe they care more about big fines to justify their existence than they do about getting to the core of the audit profession’s issues. See also Project on Government Oversight’s 2019 banger “How an Agency You’ve Never Heard of Is Leaving the Economy at Risk.”
To date, the PCAOB’s biggest fine is $25 million against KPMG Netherlands for “cheating,” rather “sharing answers” on internal training. Something everyone does. Partially because they are so overworked they struggle to find time to do BS checkbox training. The PCAOB has nabbed some genuine cheaters in its seine net but the most notorious one got bungled in court and thrown out.
PCAOB paper pushing aside, someone needs to wrangle firms. Once upon a time audit firms were trusted to regulate themselves but we know how that turned out.
I’ll put an excerpt from PwC US’s comment letter to the SEC here to give you an idea what firms are saying about PCAOB-2024-06 in their pleas for the SEC to reject it. The letters from the firms are all basically the same.
We believe that providing transparency about our work and the health of our audit practice, including many of the factors we consider in evaluating how we are measuring up to our quality expectations, is important, which is why we publish detailed information in our Audit Quality Report2 (“AQR”). Despite this strong belief, we are unable to support SEC approval of the PCAOB final rules because the prescribed, static form of the PCAOB’s final metrics may result in investors and other stakeholders forming inappropriate conclusions about audit quality based on incomplete information. [Emphasis ours] In addition, the PCAOB adopting release:
- overstates the expected benefits, particularly the usefulness of the information in decision making by investors, audit committees, and other stakeholders; and
- understates the cost to gather and prepare the metrics required by the PCAOB final rules – costs that are compounded by the lack of reasonable de minimis thresholds or materiality considerations.
Right. So they’re afraid outsiders and, specifically, investors will look at their training, experience, retention, and workload data and make assumptions on audit quality such as “holy shit this place is a sweatshop,” “wow they can’t retain senior-level talent at all,” and “OMG you mean to tell me overworked 20-somethings are doing this much work upon which the entire trustworthiness of capital markets relies??” The Audit Quality Report allows the firm to control the data and since it’s voluntary, they aren’t having to file yet another form with the PCAOB that goes into their permanent record with the regulator.
Here are some figures PwC shared from their 2024 audit quality report, found here:

Whatever, we’re not here to talk about the data firms trickle out of their own accord and the anti-metrics position since it’s obvious why firms and the AICPA would be lobbying against this rule. We’re here to talk about this comment letter by Robert Conway, a retired KPMG audit partner who also worked at the PCAOB from 2005 to 2014. I’ll embed his full 19-page letter below but if you read any part of it, read this one:
“The long hours and loss of work-life balance are not new issues. I have been in and around the profession for 45 years. This issue persists year after year. This is a systemic problem that needs attention. The audit firms have failed to make a dent in this problem because of the conflict between profitability and audit quality. Doesn’t this sound like something a regulator should be really concerned about?”
Robert Conway,
RESPONSE TO SEC REQUEST FOR PUBLIC COMMENT related to PCAOB-2024-06
“At first glance, there seem to be several prominent organizations urging the SEC to vote against the PCAOB’s new rules,” Conway told us in an emailed request for comment. “Those organizations include the Big 4, AICPA, the Center for Audit Quality, and the US Chamber of Commerce. What do these organizations have in common? Directly or indirectly, they receive major funding from the Big 4. None of the commenters are truly independent or unbiased.”
Here are the comment letters he mentioned:
These are groups that endorse the PCAOB rule and have asked the SEC to vote to approve it:
- American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO); Americans for Financial Reform Education Fund; Better Markets; Ceres Accelerator; Communications Workers of America; Consumer Federation of America; Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility; Oxfam America; Public Citizen; Revolving Door Project; Seventh Generation Interfaith Coalition for Responsible Investment; Zevin Asset Management [Ed. note: These groups “strongly endorse” the rule, not just regular endorse.]
- AARP
- The Council of Institutional Investors
Hmm there’s a pattern here I just can’t put my finger on it…
Conway’s position is that the large audit firm staffing model is a mismatch for the complexity auditors are expected to master. In his comment letter he says:
A Succinct Statement of the Large Audit Firm Staffing Model Risks
The fundamental risk of the large audit firm staffing model is that audits are conducted by inexperienced staff with minimal year-over-year continuity. This poses a heightened risk of errors not being detected. This heightened risk is compounded by the concurrent risk that the audit may not be adequately supervised due to heavy partner and manager workloads. Further compounding this risk is the perception that reporting deadlines are seemingly fixed, leaving some auditors wishing they had more time to conduct a better audit. This business model is a complete mismatch for the complexity auditors need to master in today’s environment to achieve suitable levels of audit quality. This is not the staffing model we would adopt if we were starting from scratch.
And gives these examples:
To fully understand just how problematic the large audit firm staffing model is, I have other data points to share with you:
- My estimate of the weighted average experience of audit staff (excluding partners and managers) post-CPA licensing is only 1.3 years,
- My estimate of the annual turnover among audit professionals during years three, four, and five at the Big Four is 33% per year
- In another matter, EY paid a $100 million fine to the SEC because audit professionals were caught cheating on internal tests. The SEC’s “Administrative and Cease and Desist Order” stated that “Many professionals acknowledged during the firm’s investigation that they knew their conduct violated EY’s Code of Conduct, but they cheated because of work commitments or an inability to pass training exams after multiple attempts.12 I make no excuses for cheating. But the words in bold tell me that EY professionals must have been “overworked” and “out of time” in order to have rationalized cheating, and
- A January 2018 article published by Reuters about the FDIC’s claim against PwC in the Colonial Bank matter reinforces the flaws in the Big Four staffing model and how PwC managed its human capital:
Among PwC’s shortcomings, according to Judge Rothstein: The auditor relied upon the chief architect of the fraud, Taylor Bean chair Lee Farkas, to verify key information about the collateral underlying a Colonial credit facility for Taylor Bean. PwC also signed off on Colonial’s audit without ever understanding the third and most complex iteration of the fraud, which involved a credit facility based on phantom mortgage securitizations. After an auditor who was supposed to make sense of the transactions gave up, saying they were “above his pay grade,” PwC assigned a college-aged intern to evaluate the nearly $600 million asset.
Judge Rothstein was distinctly harsh about PwC’s failings. Basing Colonial’s certification on Farkas’ account of Taylor Bean’s collateral was “… quintessentially the same as asking the fox to report on the condition of the hen house,” she wrote. And charging an intern to decipher a loan facility beyond the expertise of a senior auditor was a “truly astonishing” departure from PwC’s mandate, the judge wrote.”
Further reading on Colonial Bank if you weren’t cognizant of global financial collapse because you were like 5 years old in 2008: Colonial Bank Collapse Will Cost PwC $625 Million, Reports Say.
Says Conway:
There is a familiar expression often cited by performance improvement experts: “That which gets measured improves.” This is the gist of what the PCAOB is trying to do with the Firm and Engagement Performance metrics. If audit committees, acting on behalf of investors, have visibility to this information, they can monitor whether the audit firm in the local office has historically provided the workload capacity, experience, and supervision and review that are foundational to conducting a good audit. As it stands today, auditors will promise great service delivery, but often there is no accountability or only anecdotal accountability as to whether the firm 1) delivered as promised or 2) overpromised and under-delivered. In instances where the blend of metrics are unfavorable, the audit committee deserves an explanation as to what the audit firm did to ensure that audit quality was not compromised. The audit committee can also consider whether the metrics of competing audit firms in the local geography have a better history of managing their human capital.
This is what EY had to say about that in their comment letter [PDF]:
The rule introduces a new public oversight model to issuer audits that, in our opinion, has not been adequately studied and is based on metrics susceptible to misinterpretation and misuse that will be costly to produce. The rule also has the potential of disrupting the model established by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 (SOX) for auditor oversight by an independent audit committee and also does not properly address the information needs of audit committees.
So same as PwC.
In a graphic Conway included in his letter, he breaks down audit quality like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

As in Maslow’s hierarchy, if the basics aren’t met then forget all the stuff at the top. In Maslow’s those things are food, water, and safety. In audit quality, it’s supervision and review, reasonable partner workloads, reasonable staff workloads, suitably experienced professionals, good audit team continuity, and ongoing continuing education.
The important takeaway from the above graphic is that there are three basic groupings of ingredients needed to conduct an audit of high quality, with each level building upon the lower level.
- At the bottom of the pyramid are the “basic inputs” which are essentially “the firm and engagement performance metrics.” To do any job well, one needs time, knowledge / experience, and supervision / review. This is common sense. Providing transparency to these basic inputs is akin to labeling the ingredients in a food product and providing nutritional information.
- The next level up the pyramid I refer to as “skills and tools” such as a sound audit methodology and good policies promoting consultation.
- The top level is about “Fortitude to Do the Right Thing” when the engagement partner finds him or herself on the horns of a dilemma. This level involves elements like independence and a good tone at the top that supports “doing the right thing.”
The lowest level (the engagement performance metrics) lends itself to measurement. In fact, these are things the largest audit firms are already measuring internally. However, as one moves up the pyramid, the higher levels almost defy measurement.
The PCAOB’s rule is all about that all-important bottom level. “Sound and consistent information strengthens investor confidence and can drive audit quality,” said PCAOB Chair Erica Y. Williams in December 2024. “The new requirements we are adopting today will make PCAOB oversight more effective and equip investors, audit committees, and others with clear, consistent, and actionable data related to audit firms and the engagements they perform.” *sound of papers and brooms intensifies*
Anyway, this has already run too long and dear reader probably didn’t get this far. Read the whole letter below and sound off in the comments if you want to. You can also email me and/or submit a letter to the editor if you prefer that route.

just skimmed this, need to go to work soon, but i’m opposed to the hours metrics from partners to staff being disclosed. i see too much variability within different audit clients (small vs big) within an industry, relative-sized clients in different industries, etc., where partners are asked to justify/explain when it’s “just how things go.”
best,
the best ever, @twuench
I oppose the new metric. It is just more PCAOB paper collection. If the PCAOB wants to improve audits, which I doubt, it should investigate SEC client restatements and look for bad audits. Then make findings of fact, subject to cross examination, that will stand up in a real court, not Mark Dorfman’s kangaroo court and make the results public. If this causes the B4 to pay hundreds of millions in class action settlements annually, so be it.
When the B4 pay enough annually for bad audits, they will change. Not until.
I cite Oliver Wendell Holmes’s “bad man” of 1897. Holmes explains it all for you.
I sympathize with your position, but believe the new disclosures are a PCAOB diversion from the real issue: it pays the B4 to operate the way they do.
I read Robert Conway’s 19-page letter and agree with the facts and disagree with the conclusion.
The problem: what are audits worth? Suppose Fortune 100 Inc, told its B4 CPA, we want a better quality audit. The last three years your bill was between $6 and $7 million per year.
Here’s our deal: we will pay $10 million for next year’s audit. One of your deliverables, will be all the PCAOB proposed metrics. As part of your audit committee correspondence, you will give us projected audit hours by level, i.e., staff, senior, manager, partner and consulting partner(s).
We extend this offer to each of the other three B4 firms.
Why are we doing this? Because noted Professor Schwartzkopf (that translates as blackhead from German), of the Wharton (Stanford, Chicago, Northwestern, MIT, whichever MBA school) gave us a study saying getting such an audit will decrease our WACC (weighted average cost of capital) 42 basis points give of take four basis points at a 95% confidence level, producing an expected increase in our market capitalization (MC) of $14 billion! Our Treasurer (UCLA MBA) and CFO (Columbia MBA) agree with this analysis.
So our CFO’s cost benefit analysis is: for $3.5 million ($10 – $6.5) capitalized at 10%, or $35 million in present value, we get a $14 billion MC increase! That’s a 400 to one payoff! Wow! Give each of your staffers on the engagement a 20% raise and an extra week off. Give the engagement partner 100 more units!
Do you think this will happen?
Why isn’t it happening now? Because no one believes the numbers.
If audits were worth more, they would cost more.
CPAs’ pay reflects their “Marginal Revenue Product” (MRP). Roland Fryer, Harvard Economics Professor had an interesting WSJ article a few months ago applying the MRP principle to the National Football League? Did you know there was a .7 correlation coefficient between an NFL team’s passing yards and quarterback salaries?
Enough.
Junior, “Pop” is still alive and as cynical as ever.
The fundamental tension is still between the auditor needing to perform a high-quality audit, AND make a profit off the client. When Conway says that auditors offer great service delivery but there is no accountability, he’s only half-right. There is accountability, in the form of being replaced as auditor. But that means that the great service delivery is geared toward “what will make the client happy” instead of “high quality audit.” The customer being identical to the subject is a situation ripe for rushed and undercooked audits.
A couple of thoughts. The only reason this information would be difficult and costly to compile is if the audit firm doesn’t know who is working on the audits; that would seem to me to be a characteristic of offshoring. If the jobs were 100% performed domestically, pulling this together would be a fairly simple matter of running a few queries. The fact is that larger firms have 10s of thousands of employees overseas providing upwards of 50% of the hours on many large audits and simply doesn’t the details needed to compile the data. But the % of hours performed offshore should be a metric all its own.
The AICPA’s response to this “but think of the burden on the little firms” is just not credible. They have paid precious little attention to the plight of smaller firms until now when an issue clearly impacts the larger firms more.
I don’t think you know what you are talking about. The firms already have to report the offshored hours to the PCAOB. And all decent firms have very robust internal reporting of hours – how else can they manage their resources and profitability?
I worked at PW back in the mid 1970’s. Nothing has changed, based upon what I am reading here. The basic problem is that Clients really don’t want to pay for audits. This results in lower fees, and pressure to get the job done quickly to make a profit, and move on. As they say in Real Estate, money solves all problems. Same here. SEC might want to consider imposing higher fees so that CPA firms can make a profit and reinvest.
But the current model of having the least experienced at the forefront of the attest function is madness.
Or maybe limit the attest to items that can be easily confirmed such as investments, receivables etc. And do not opine on items that are simply too opaque.
It’s a vicious circle. Under fee pressure, CPA’s do sloppy work. Client is upset that they are paying big bucks for sloppy work. Exert more fee pressure. What a great business model from the cleve CPA’s!